Wow, BillyBob!
<Crocodile Dundee> Now THAT's a toggle!! </Crocodile Dundee>
Webbing
Line and Straps
Whoppie Sling
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Wow, BillyBob!
<Crocodile Dundee> Now THAT's a toggle!! </Crocodile Dundee>
- Frawg
{generic tagline}
why that's just good practice of dual use principles. You got your toggle....if you happen on a church league softball game going on in the meadow, why you just pack the hammock and you got your softball bat...
practice makes perfect BB. Muscle memory will have you whipping out those MSH's in a matter of a very few seconds.
At least if you bring your own toggles....I have 3in long pieces of 1/2" diameter dowel rod tied to my huggers. Always there, just a few grams...
Grizz
It seems to me that Tee-Dee talks about the fact that your toggle should be made from something hard, like metal or if made of wood...a hardwood like maybe oak. This helps when you go to remove it from the Marlin Spike Hitch. Even though the knot receives almost all of the pressure from the weight applied during the hang, if you use a material that compresses too readily it can make it difficult to remove the toggle when the times come to disassemble your rig. Please correct me if I'm wrong Tee-Dee..Did you not mention in your discussion of using the MSH that hardness and smoothness of the toggle were to be considered. Didn't you say that that was why a smooth/hard surface like a tent stake would make a good toggle.
I don't want to misquote you or mislead anyone.
"If'n I'm gonna fall, someone is gonna' watch."
Sean Emery
Who was it that was comparing their packed up hammock to the size of a softball? Talk about dual use...Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams
why that's just good practice of dual use principles. You got your toggle....if you happen on a church league softball game going on in the meadow, why you just pack the hammock and you got your softball bat...
BTW, BB -- I wouldn't let the fact that you can break the sticks disconcert you. I doubt you could break a two inch length of one; you can't apply enough force with your hands to create enough bending stress nor, IMHO, can that strap/whoopie sling configuration. Imagine what would happen to a wet noodle used as a toggle and you'll get a picture of the forces acting on the wood. Imagine a really short, really fat "longbow".
But I could be wrong... stay close to the ground for a while.
- Frawg
{generic tagline}
I'm not TeeDee but that never stopped me from butting into a conversation before...and I have a lot of experience with the Marlin Spike hitch...
I've used poplar dowel rods as toggles. After the first use I see a little bit of compression, just an impression of compression. They pop right out when I pull on them.
I have some really hard toggles, made of bloodwood. A touch heavier, and a touch easier to pull out, mostly because they're smooth.
I think what's on my working straps is oak dowel. No sign of compression. A lot cheaper than bloodwood! Have a hole drilled through an end so that the toggle is always tied to the strap, there when I need it.
The main issue with using trail sticks is finding smooth straight ones. Friction is the problem pulling them out more than compression.
my $0.05
we now return you to your regularly scheduled broadcast...
Grizz
Thankee Grizz,
I too have made a set of toggles using an oak limb cut in 3" sections with the bark removed and sanded reeeeeeeal smooth to cut down on the resulting friction, I than also have drilled a hole in one end of each and attached them to the ends of my straps.
Man was that ever a run on sentence.
Now excuse me while I get back to my TV watching thingee.
Barefoot Child
Last edited by Barefoot Child; 11-12-2009 at 00:53.
"If'n I'm gonna fall, someone is gonna' watch."
Sean Emery
Wow, BillyBob!
<Crocodile Dundee> Now THAT's a toggle!! </Crocodile Dundee>
Thanks! I was right proud of them my own self!
Yep, nothing smooth or straight about my 1st toggles(sticks, aka ball bats). They were a struggle to undo. But, then the very fragility I was worried about- i.e. how easily I could snap them ( great fire wood) worked to my advantage. I just broke them in two and they came right out.
Looks pretty good BillyBob.Thanks Tee Dee and Griz and all: Tried it today. I used trail sticks and 1.5" huggers ( first ones my hands landed on, I'll try some 1" later when I find them).
I was really paranoid about the sticks, which were good and fat but very dry and easily broken by hand. But they held just fine, for the short time I was out there. I think I would prefer something greener next time, if handy. But I was in a hurry to finish my hike and test, so I used whatever was close at hand.
It is probably the learning curve, but right now I think I am faster with a biner and cinch buckle, and maybe even the triglide, than with this system. Of course, the WS themselves are fast as lightning. But I lost time finding the sticks, fooling with huggers and putting bights through loops and sticks through bites. Naturally I was having to think about each step, I will no doubt get faster. It was also slower to undo, since the webbing was cinched real tight to the sticks. At least until I finally thought to just break the sticks!Of course, a smoother toggle like a stake would have quickly pulled right out.
Also, I think the thick 1.5" webbing is a bit slower to work with. Regardless, the WS system is a good bit lighter and less bulky than the full length webbing, so I'll probably be using this for a while. And I think I might have the rope on the wrong side of the stick. But the load still seemed to be on the webbing, and it held fine, so I don't know if it makes any difference. I'll look at it closer next time.
Having fun though!
In remembering back over my suspension evolution, the primary reasons I left webbing and rings were bulk and weight, primarily bulk. Now with my MSLS and minimal webbing huggers or rope huggers, I have managed to minimize the bulk as much as possible for now.
The rope can be either above the toggle as you have it or below. If done the way you did, the Marlin Spike Hitch acts as a great drip string for any water coming down the tree. Then any water coming down the Whoopie or UCR will just follow the dangling ropes of either and never make it as far as the hammock.
For the toggle, the smoother the surface, the easier it is to remove the toggle. If the toggle surface is real smooth, then removing is as simple as simply pulling it free - an advantage of the TI nail stakes or anything similar.
I'm not usually in a hurry and I do usually have 2 6" TI nail stakes, but prefer to use them elsewhere so just use what I pick up on the ground.
Someone mentioned in another thread somewhere a point to consider: the toggle can be dangerous if too far from the tree if you happen to not be paying attention and walk into it.
I always get the toggle and Marlin Spike Hitch as close to the tree as I can, not more than the width of my hand, so this has never been a problem for me.
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
BillyBob, I'm 6'4" and 250 lb, and I have been using 2 1/2" lengths of aluminum arrow shaft as toggles. I have yet to break or crush them with my 1" Harbor Freight straps, though I admit I've been playing with this system for only a short time.
I drilled a hole in the end of each one, and strung a loop of mason line through it. Then I attached one to each strap loop with a larks-head. Small, light, and always there, plus easy to pull out when I'm done.
Hope that helps.
PS: nice photos--looks like a good day for a hike.
--Scott <><
"I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful... because, in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing things they hate, my fishing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility and endless patience...." --Robert Traver
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