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  1. #11
    Senior Member Rolloff's Avatar
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    I'm around 165#. 1.0 and 1.1 work well for me. @185# I'd probably be looking at the new 1.3 or 1.6.

    While there have been some failures of the 1.1, it's not a persistant problem, with many occurring due to user, vendor, or material lot problems. If you are closing in on your gear's maximum weight limit, you do so with the knowledge that you are sacrificing strength and durability, to avoid a small amount of weight penalty, and additional care must be taken to prevent KatsOstrophic failures.

    I've had no problems with my original 11' BIAS WW after three years. Sleeps wonderfully. At 5'6" however I think I've got a bit too much excess material in both length and width, and need to see if a smaller lighter hammock is possible for me. I understand this is a luxury of which not all hangers can take advantage. While slowly slipping into a more lightweight world on the trail, I'm also converting to a full time hammocker and 10' fits much better in the small bedrooms in my house.

    I may be going smaller yet. It seems Codi may be showing some interest and man does he know how to get comfortable. 30lb Borgi looks like he'll fit fine in a little bridge.
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  2. #12
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Length - probably matters less to short people, but if you're over 5'10" I'd bet you find 11 ft. hammocks more comfortable.
    Fabric Weight - I'm done with 1.1 oz. (unless it's a DL) - disposable hammocks are not for me.
    Netting - While in theory, a hammock with an integrated bugnet SHOULD weigh less, in practice they never do. I understand why people think they weigh less, because there's less netting. But show me a hammock with integrated bugnet that weighs less than my BIAS Hiker Lite (9.5 oz) and Nano Buginator bugnet (7 oz.), and it will be 1.1 oz single layer fabric (which I'm done with). The zippers alone seem to negate any weight savings.
    Top Cover - I'm still working out these issues. I doubt I'll ever get a top cover; might experiment with a winter sock (bottom entry) because I can't deal with the whole claustrophobic thing that most of these solutions seem to provide. I'm a big fan of quick escape; don't want to be enclosed by a zipper or a sock.

    If you were to conduct a poll, I'd guess that 75% to 90% of hammock hangers prefer integrated bugnets with a zipper, so I know I'm in the minority 'cause I hate 'em. In reality, I really only need a bugnet 25% of the year: June, July and August. I don't camp or hike much during those months so it's really even less time that I need a bugnet. I'm an absolute mosquito magnet, but if temps are below 60 degrees Fahrenheit, they don't bother me.

    There is scientific evidence to support this - that mosquitoes are too lethargic below 60 to fly, well enough bite. Of course, some folks rigorously dispute this, claiming that they have special mosquitoes that can bite even when the temps are below freezing. Until I see evidence, I think that's all poppycock.

    If I can leave the bugnet at home nine months out of the year, that's the path I choose. The integrated bugnet fans are enamored with zippers (they love 'em; makes 'em feel more secure and more invincible to bugs, for some reason) and even like the bugnet in winter, claiming it adds a few degrees of warmth (though a bugnet cannot be construed as insulation).

    I'll be interested to see what you decide.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  3. #13
    hutzelbein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    Length - probably matters less to short people, but if you're over 5'10" I'd bet you find 11 ft. hammocks more comfortable.
    As a general rule, this would mean that any 9' hammock would be more uncomfortable to me (a short person) than any 10'. This is not so.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    Netting - While in theory, a hammock with an integrated bugnet SHOULD weigh less, in practice they never do. I understand why people think they weigh less, because there's less netting. But show me a hammock with integrated bugnet that weighs less than my BIAS Hiker Lite (9.5 oz) and Nano Buginator bugnet (7 oz.), and it will be 1.1 oz single layer fabric (which I'm done with). The zippers alone seem to negate any weight savings.
    My 11' / 60" BIAS Lite Hiker DL weighs 630g with whoopies (but no huggers); my BIAS Buginator weighs 270g. The system would then be 900g. My 11' / 60" DH Roaming Gnome DL weighs 720g with whoopies (but no huggers). If you want to keep the brand the same: WB BB SL 1.7 = 22 oz. WB Traveler SL 1.7 = 17oz, WB Travel Net = 7.5oz - total = 24.5oz. Yes, the WB Travel Net has a zipper - but then the Blackbird has a shelf...

    From what I have seen on the manufacturers websites, integrated hammocks are a tad lighter, unless you go for a partial bug net. The difference in weight is not huge, and as you said, there are good reasons for picking a non-integrated hammock. But the OP was looking for light options and said that the bug net would have to come on every hike. In my opinion that is a pretty strong case for an integrated hammock.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    If I can leave the bugnet at home nine months out of the year, that's the path I choose. The integrated bugnet fans are enamored with zippers (they love 'em; makes 'em feel more secure and more invincible to bugs, for some reason) and even like the bugnet in winter, claiming it adds a few degrees of warmth (though a bugnet cannot be construed as insulation).
    If you do winter camping, a no-net is a good idea, although as a cold sleeper, you probably would exchange the net for a winter sock. In reality, how many hammock addicts only own one hammock, though? An integrated hammock for bug season, and a no-net hammock for winter would be the best set-up - and gives you an excuse for owning another hammock.

    One of the reasons for me preferring a zipper is that I feel it's easier to get out of the hammock. With the Buginator, I get tangled up more than with any of the integrated hammocks I own. So this is strictly a matter of taste. I also like my integrated hammocks because...

    • they keep my feet and my stuff in the hammock; with no-nets I often lose my pillow and my feet hang over the edge
    • it's almost impossible to "miss" the hammock when entering; I only ever have that problem with my no-nets if I'm not careful
    • I like the increased privacy I get from the bugnet pulling the hammock fabric slightly up (but then I camp in public campgrounds a lot)
    • and last but not least, the bug net *does* increase the temperature in the hammock by restricting the exchange of air. A stand-alone bug net does not increase the temperature that much (which is a good thing in summer). But with an integrated hammock you can clearly feel it. I even think somebody measured it, but can't find the thread. Of course a net does not keep the warm air as well as a winter sock or top cover.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Theosus's Avatar
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    I like the looks of the Hammeck. If I had it to start over I'd probably get one of those. Their "envy" comes with a removable bug net, and a cover that replaces the bug net if you want to help hold in some heat in winter. Looks like a great product. Anyone use them?
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  5. #15
    Senior Member
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    My $.02:

    I'm 6'1" and 165 lbs. I recently bought a 11' Thunderbird in 1.6 Argon. I've also got a Doublenest and an 11' tablecloth.

    So far, I'm really digging the Thunderbird. The bugnet a zipper situation hasn't bothered me yet. The Argon 1.6 is a very comfortable lay - just the right balance of give and support.

    As far as weight is concerned, mine comes to 717 grams (25.29 ounces) with the bugnet. I have also swapped the stock suspension for Amsteel continuous loops because I use Dutch hooks.

    Honestly, I went to hammock camping because I wanted repeatable comfort. Hanging above the wet ground, not cooped up in a humid tent, with the same sleeping conditions every night. I've been on more hikes than I can count where I've been really tired from getting a poor night's sleep, and I'm okay with carrying a bit more weight to avoid that feeling. So, I pick up a bit more weight on my comfortable hammock because that's the entire point of taking to the trees. Then, I just cut weight everywhere else to make up for it. I'm at about 16 lbs for a base weight right now, which is just fine with me.

    Bottom line: buy a comfy hammock and accept the weight penalty. If you really wanted to be a UL purist, you'd be shopping for a bivy right now anyway.

  6. #16
    Senior Member
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    Bottom line: buy a comfy hammock and accept the weight penalty. If you really wanted to be a UL purist, you'd be shopping for a bivy right now anyway.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed and I can't go back to the ground. NEVER could get comfortable.

    Ultimately I really need to get some nights in a few of the lighter weight hammocks hammocks without built in nets or covers to evaluate their comfort vs my WBBB.

  7. #17
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theosus View Post
    I like the looks of the Hammeck. If I had it to start over I'd probably get one of those. Their "envy" comes with a removable bug net, and a cover that replaces the bug net if you want to help hold in some heat in winter. Looks like a great product. Anyone use them?
    I'd love to know the weight on this hammock with just the over cover attached for winter use.

  8. #18
    gunner76's Avatar
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    I suggest you go to a local hammock hang in your area where you can check out a variety of hammocks.

    During my 20 years in the Marines I learned real quick that if I got a goods nights sleep I could put with just about anything. When I am back packinging I want to know that my gear will work and not fail. If that means I carry a few more ounces then so be it. While I have some hammocks set up with whoopies I tend to go with straps and buckles as I have found that the whoopies have limited some places I wanted to hang due to their length while with the straps I can shorten them down to barely longer than the hammock. HYOH

    I am 6 ft 2 and was 300 lbs when I started and I got a BB 1.7 double. Now down to 270 lbs and also use a 1.1 double and both are very comfortable for me although I notice a bit more stretch in the 1.1 but not enough that I am worried about it. Most of my DIY gathered end hammocks are 11 ft are double layered which I find to be best length for me but as they are different from the BB I can't say one style is better than the other. I have a BBO and a Warbonnet Sock. The BBO weighs less, sets up fast, helps to retain the heat. The Sock weighs more and is a bit of pain to set up but it is excellent at blocking the wind and if you put the opening on the down wind side you can leave it open for a view if needed. I do recommend TATO's tarp pull kit to keep the sock from blowing against your hammock.
    I am 18 with 48 years of experience ! ................ Hike the Neusiok Trail & check out the NTforum !

  9. #19
    Senior Member Rolloff's Avatar
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    SS I agree with everything you say. As usual.

    Just as soon as I get fatter or experience a failure, I'll be ordering something in 1.3 or 1.6. I'm not calling for 10' over 11' on the comfort crowd either. Just hoping I can get by with it as a full time sleeper. When I'm in the WW it's very comfortable, but just seems like way too much material, for me at 5'6". I don't care for the "enclosed" feeling either. I considered buying a SLD Streamliner. I like to be able to see out!
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  10. #20
    silentorpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    But show me a hammock with integrated bugnet that weighs less than my BIAS Hiker Lite (9.5 oz) and Nano Buginator bugnet (7 oz.), and it will be 1.1 oz single layer fabric (which I'm done with). The zippers alone seem to negate any weight savings.
    BIAS lists the Hiker Light as being made from a 30D Poly Taffeta fabric. Isn't that 1.1oz, single layer? Perhaps it's more durable than 1.1oz ripstop nylon, but regardless, doesn't that go contrary to your statement of not trusting single layer 1.1oz hammocks (which I completely agree with )?


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