Off subject a bit, but I appreciate the consideration given to worker conditions. I buy from our vendors, keeps resources in this community, and just seems like the right thing to do. I appreciate the business I get from my clients because I am local.Originally Posted by hutzelbein
“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
It's not just poly tarps vs silnylon. PU coated nylon is waaay cheaper than silnylon, materialwise. It even makes better performing tarp material (no spray through, doesn't stretch as much, lasts longer). The difference is weight. Poly tarps just plain suck, in addition to being heavy.
The cost of materials is one factor to consider, as it overall weight and quality of construction. Many inexpensive tarps have grommets for tie out points instead of webbing loops. The grommets will easily pull out at the most inopportune time or the arrangement of tieouts doesn't give you the pitch option that you desire. I will disagree with you that PU coated nylon as being a better performing tarp material. I've had PU coated tents and tent flys that delaminated after a few seasons of light use.
Do keep in mind that in a hammock camping setup you tarp is your SHELTER. The hammock is technically part of your sleep system. So in that vein, I would rather spend the extra money up front to buy a quality product. As the old saying goes when it comes to gear, buy nice of buy twice.
Cheers
Brian
Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment. - Unknown
Well, you have to consider the opportunity cost here. For the price of 1 cuben fiber tarp, I could by 20 PU coated nylon tarps. 20. That's beyond a lifetime supply. I've been using the same one for 4 years or more and it's no worse for the wear. For the price of one cuben fiber tarp, you could also buy a vintage motorcycle, etc. I stand by my statement--the only reason to spend more than $20 for a tarp is to shave off weight--and probably less than a pound of it at that. You can shave off less than a pound of weight in many less expensive ways.
That attempts to quantify the absolute top end CF vs bargain basement slave labor produced products. Here's another attempt.
What if you can't get back to where you have the other 19 polycons stored, when the one you are using delaminates, pulls grommets, or just plain pain in the butt fails?
Like the foundation, which is footwear, Same with shelter. I'm not going to risk the failure, enjoymment, or safety of an entire trip, on Ozark Trail footwear, or a Habor Freight tarp. I always have a lot more invested in time, effort, transportation, planning, and stand to lose much more, than I can save on the cheap stuff.
And as a note...I don't own a speck of CF at this point. At some point I will. Saving a pound off the top of your pack weight, in the begining of the weight reduction quest, is and should be for most, extremely easy and cost effective. But once you have tamed the Big 3 and are on the cusp of reaching LW - UL, trimming that pound becomes much more expensive. At this point, once you've made the sacrifices, drilled holes in the cut off toothbrush handle and such, to wipe an entire pound away, in one fell swoop, with a simple equipment switch, becomes much more desireable.
If you don't care about any of that, that's fine too. HYOH. Just don't give me the 20 to 1 effort.
I seriously hope I never ever have 20 poly tarps sitting around waiting on me to use them. I do have a large poly tarp, but I use it as ground protection under a tent at festivals and such, once or twice a year. So instead of 20, I'd really only need the one I have for a few days and CF for the rest of the year. So instead of 20 cheap tarps, I have spent $7.50 beyond that total cost, and now have a CF tarp to use as many nights as I can possibly manage, along with that piece of poly I need on the ground, a couple times per year.
This is the type of logic, even my wife finds amusing
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That attempts to quantify the absolute top end CF vs bargain basement slave labor produced products. Here's another attempt.
What if you can't get back to where you have the other 19 polycons stored, when the one you are using delaminates, pulls grommets, or just plain pain in the butt fails?
Like the foundation, which is footwear, Same with shelter. I'm not going to risk the failure, enjoymment, or safety of an entire trip, on Ozark Trail footwear, or a Habor Freight tarp. I always have a lot more invested in time, effort, transportation, planning, and stand to lose much more, than I can save on the cheap stuff.
And as a note...I don't own a speck of CF at this point. At some point I will. Saving a pound off the top of your pack weight, in the begining of the weight reduction quest, is and should be for most, extremely easy and cost effective. But once you have tamed the Big 3 and are on the cusp of reaching LW - UL, trimming that pound becomes much more expensive. At this point, once you've made the sacrifices, drilled holes in the cut off toothbrush handle and such, to wipe an entire pound away, in one fell swoop, with a simple equipment switch, becomes much more desireable.
If you don't care about any of that, that's fine too. HYOH. Just don't give me the 20 to 1 effort.
I seriously hope I never ever have 20 poly tarps sitting around waiting on me to use them. I do have a large poly tarp, but I use it as ground protection under a tent at festivals and such, once or twice a year. So instead of 20, I'd really only need the one I have for a few days and CF for the rest of the year. So instead of 20 cheap tarps, I have spent $7.50 beyond that total cost, and now have a CF tarp to use as many nights as I can possibly manage, along with that piece of poly I need on the ground, a couple times per year.
This is the type of logic, even my wife finds amusing
You're just confirming what I have previously stated, that the only reason to buy an expensive tarp is to reduce weight, so I'm not really sure where we differ here. Except for the fact that you seem to be confusing PU coated nylon tarps with poly tarps. They are very much not the same thing. I wouldn't bring a poly tarp into the woods even if I was car camping--because, as you have said, they are practically a one-time use type product. PU coated nylon tarps, on the other hand, at least the ones I have owned, are quite durable, and many, including the Guide Gear that I have now, have sewn on loops and all that--and are indistinguishable from similar silnylon tarps except for the material from which they are constructed.
Then the trip becomes an adventure. Some of my best memories of trips into the woods is when things went a little sideways from what was planned or expected.
I've got some high end gear - and low end stuff. It's all mixed and matched depending on where and how I plan on camping.
Stoves? Stoves? Crud, just added a Solo Stove and Pot to the crowded stove rack. Summer stoves, winter stoves, alcohol stoves, gas stoves, pro/bu mix stoves, and now a twig stove. Choices, choices, which do I take.
I guess if weight isn't your bag, then bulk isn't either.
Carry on, or Carry forth. Bigger bulk, more weight, means bigger heavier pack, in the end probably doesn't matter much.
As long as you're the one willing to carry it forth. HYOH.
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I've always been of the opinion that anyone who thinks the Guide Gear tarps are adequate shelter have to be fair-weather campers. I simply would not go camping (never mind hiking) with something of such poor quality and performance. It's a true $20 tarp in every sense.
When I get to go out in the woods, it's not gonna be with a Guide Gear as my shelter.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson
If you car camp, then weight is not an issue, go with the less expensive tarp.
If you backpack then weight is a major issue and the less weight the better.
If you are on a budget then look in the For Sale section to see what might be available ( don't forget to check WhiteBlaze.net also for used gear )
I am still 18 but with 52 years of experience !
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