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  1. #21
    Senior Member guySmiley's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that nobody's calling for anyone to deliberately flout the law or break rules of a state/federal park or private owners. I guess I should speak for myself, but the initial post said that the rules are vague.

    He said the guy said to him, "You can hang a hammock, but you can sleep in one."

    That indicates to me that what they're worried about is some bum looking dude getting naked, changing his clothes in front of your scouts and their grandparents and such. In which case, maybe the best way to educate people would be to do it by example, by being a considerate and good camper who's got a sleeping arrangement that will make them go ooo and aah.

    If the guy on the phone said, "No way, no how, hammocks kill trees and only bad people use them." my response (and probably others as well) would have been different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashman View Post
    For the individual yes but for the community it could be bad. Each person has to Hang thier on Hang but I would caution everyone (especially those hanging with Scouts, I am happy to expand if you want) to remember that while hammock use is growing it is still a "ground dwellers" world. I don't want the opportunities closed for all because some went "stealth" and tried to do an end run on the rules. Ekul I am in no way calling you out specifically, several have made the same comment. I have been weighing whether to say anything. I sincerely hope that this reponse is recieved in the spirit it was humbly submitted.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Frawg's Avatar
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    Re forgiveness vs permission

    Like most succinct sayings, it can be interpreted in several ways, depending on the sensibilities of the interpreter. Since I posted the quote, let me provide some context for it.

    I first heard the phrase spoken by a remarkable lady, Admiral Grace Hopper, which she cited as her "11th commandment". The context was her recall to active duty, when she was given a staff of one or two young sailors and an essentially unfurnished office in the Pentagon. Her responsibilities were ill defined, but she had no problem furnishing her office or finding things to do! That "commandment" was her observation on getting things done inside a bureaucracy.

    It is not a rationale for getting away with something expressly forbidden, nor for avoiding an obligation. Rather, it expresses a philosophy of initiative in bureaucratic "gray" areas not addressed by policy or directive. Not a course to take, I suppose, in a "Mother, May I?" world.

    I apologize if the quote ruffled any feathers. No ruffling was intended!

    Respectfully,
    Chuck

  3. #23
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    I simply never refer to my hammock as a hammock. It's a tent, that just so happens to hang from a tree. Lots of tents use tie offs and such for their shape and or tarps, so does mine. I use either an age old Lawson, or the infinitely better Clark NA. Both are fully enclosed like a tent, so for me... it's a tent, a suspended tent, but a tent. If they allow tenting, then I'm good. Nobody has ever given an issue to that, although I don't generally ask that question directly.

    In one park, they disallowed stringing lines to the trees to prevent damage. This is certainly understandable, and I showed them my wide straps. They agreed that this was fine and wouldn't damage the trees, and granted me permission (in writing) for a 'suspended tent' between the trees on the campsite.

  4. #24
    Senior Member hacktorious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caboyer View Post
    Would Pohick Bay work for you? It's not under the Fairfax Co Park Authority.

    Rule 8 seems to be the operative one, and by its wording you would technically be in compliance if you slept in a hammock.

    I noticed also that the promotional picture shows a canopy guyline tied directly to a tree, so it wouldn't be illogical to expect that hammocks would be okay, especially with straps.

    I'll also bug the FCPA when I next get back to town.

    Good luck!
    Yes, I think that looks cool. I will check it out. Thanks.
    Scott Macri
    www.IronFlyOptions.com

  5. #25
    Senior Member hacktorious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guySmiley View Post
    I think that calling for further clarification is probably a mistake.

    A wise man once gave me some sage advice, "Don't ask questions that you don't want to hear the answer to."

    I think that applies here. He should refer to his hammock/tarp as a tent, or a tarp-tent. That will bring him semantically into compliance. Good enough.
    Rules to live by. Sounds perfect to me.
    Scott Macri
    www.IronFlyOptions.com

  6. #26
    Senior Member hacktorious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caboyer View Post
    Late edit: In looking through the park policy and rules I find no mention of hammocks, whatever. Perhaps the Park employee was extrapolating policy on his own.
    That's what I figured. Thanks. I'll just go and see what happens.
    Scott Macri
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Ekul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashman View Post
    For the individual yes but for the community it could be bad. Each person has to Hang thier on Hang but I would caution everyone (especially those hanging with Scouts, I am happy to expand if you want) to remember that while hammock use is growing it is still a "ground dwellers" world. I don't want the opportunities closed for all because some went "stealth" and tried to do an end run on the rules. Ekul I am in no way calling you out specifically, several have made the same comment. I have been weighing whether to say anything. I sincerely hope that this reponse is recieved in the spirit it was humbly submitted.

    no hard feelings. I agree if in large groups such as scouting trips it would set a bad example. Please expand if you would as I currently am trying to get back into scouting. eagle class of 97'.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Ashman's Avatar
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    First I would like to say to guySmiley and to caboyer no hard feelings on my part at all. One of the dangers of this medium is the chance to misread tone. One of the things I love about this forum is that unlike some other outdoor sites, HF community gives each other the benefit of the doubt. I don't think the OP was saying to openly flaunt the rules I just wanted to throw another opinion to balance what I percieved as s shift in the conversation that was leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Thank you to all who have recieved what I said in the spirit intended. I apologize if I went to0 far.

    To Ekul (I would have sent a PM but I thought this might be germane to the discussion) 1st point of the scout law, a scout is Trustworhty (at least when I was in, it may have changed!) A Scout has a duty to be truthful at all times. For the leader of Scouts this is even more true because you have several young men looking to you to see what a man looks like. Whats does a man of integrity do? I think the man of integrity does what the OP did, find out the rules of the area and when in doubt seek clarification. Where ignorance is met, counter with education, maybe even arrainge a face to face (if practical) and bring senior youth leadership along.


    I am a big fan of personal freedom, in fact I remember reading in a real good book somewhere that "all things are permissible". I guess my concern is I don't want the exercise of freedom by a few to lead to policy choices that affect the community as a whole.

    Maybe I am making a mountian out of a mole hill. Maybe I need to get out of my mole hill can go hang on a mountian. Just some thoughts as they come to me at o dark early on a Monday morning.

  9. #29
    Senior Member guySmiley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashman View Post
    First I would like to say to guySmiley and to caboyer no hard feelings on my part at all. One of the dangers of this medium is the chance to misread tone. One of the things I love about this forum is that unlike some other outdoor sites, HF community gives each other the benefit of the doubt. I don't think the OP was saying to openly flaunt the rules I just wanted to throw another opinion to balance what I percieved as s shift in the conversation that was leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Thank you to all who have recieved what I said in the spirit intended. I apologize if I went to0 far.
    Ashman, no apologies are necessary at all. I was just trying to be funny while making while making my point and clearly it fell a little flat for you. I got what you were saying and really I agree with it. I'd hate for anyone to not be able to hang someplace because I did something that peed in the group punchbowl. I just didn't think (from what I can tell, I'm a long ways away...) this was that situation.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Ekul's Avatar
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    To Ekul (I would have sent a PM but I thought this might be germane to the discussion) 1st point of the scout law, a scout is Trustworhty (at least when I was in, it may have changed!) A Scout has a duty to be truthful at all times. For the leader of Scouts this is even more true because you have several young men looking to you to see what a man looks like. Whats does a man of integrity do? I think the man of integrity does what the OP did, find out the rules of the area and when in doubt seek clarification. Where ignorance is met, counter with education, maybe even arrainge a face to face (if practical) and bring senior youth leadership along.

    You are correct, still the first law. A Scout is Trustworthy.
    A Scout tells the truth. He is honest, and he keeps his promises. People can depend on him....Although, this law might better describe this thread: A Scout is Obedient.
    A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them.


    I am a big fan of personal freedom, in fact I remember reading in a real good book somewhere that "all things are permissible". I guess my concern is I don't want the exercise of freedom by a few to lead to policy choices that affect the community as a whole.

    I agree!


    Maybe I am making a mountian out of a mole hill. Maybe I need to get out of my mole hill can go hang on a mountian. Just some thoughts as they come to me at o dark early on a Monday morning.[/QUOTE]

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