Live long and prosper!
Just a thought...you haven't been "defending" anyone. You've potentially "offended" a few, but I've not seen anyone thanking you for your protection of them.
Live long and prosper!
Just a thought...you haven't been "defending" anyone. You've potentially "offended" a few, but I've not seen anyone thanking you for your protection of them.
Man, it feels like church people arguing theology in here.
"well, we need to define noob, and nuub, respectively". Looks like there might be a split over this.
I don't even have A HAMMOCK yet. Just looking around trying to get some perspective.
What I do know, from a lot of years working with people and disasters is that we usually get our toes stepped on because we stick them out (in other words we gotta stay clear of looking for fights and thinking the worst of each other).
Whoa...I think we're getting a little too White Blazey. Chill out.
Spartan, Welcome to the board. This particualr thread is atypical in its argumentative tenor. Look around at a few more threads and I think you will understand my point.
mountainm - The first point: Can one discern an inexperienced hammock camper just by looking at the equipment employed? Of course not. All one can do by observing equipment is see what another person is using at that moment. Many posts are right on when they say it is the attitude and behavior of a person that demonstrates whether they are experienced or not.
The second point: I think many here are offended when accused of patronizing an inexperienced person. A lot of folks go out of their way on this site, and in the field, to welcome new users and try to share with them the experiences gained from experimenting with different setups.
The third point: You know that you were looking for argument. You got some. Why be angry about it? Perhaps you seek something different from this website than other folks. That is valid. But really, the vast majority of contributors here know that this is all just for fun. We are not going to stop pestilence and war, we're just chewing the fat a bit about some shared hobbies. I think you have had some fun with the hammock camping hobby, too. We don't seriously think that just because we can hang a hammock that somehow makes us geniuses. But there have been some nifty ideas and fun gizmos thought up by folks who are just trying to build a better mousetrap.
The road to success is always under construction.
http://hikingillinois.blogspot.com/
"Is there a skill to hammock camping?" would be a wonderful thread to discuss. However, you have already ruled from the mountaintop: "let's not pretend there's a skill to it."
Merriam-Webster defines skill as:
1) the ability to use one's knowledge effectively and readily in execution or performance
2) dexterity or coordination especially in the execution of learned physical tasks
3) a learned power of doing something competently : a developed aptitude or ability
I sincerely believe there is a skill to it. Many of us practice setting up our hammock systems in different kinds of weather and on different terrain, with different spacing between trees, with high or shifting winds, with blowing precipitation or a straight-down deluge.
That's the definition of skill.
If I may interject as to my own post in the other thread:
If my post was taken as putting down someone else's preferences, I apologize. It was not meant in that manner, nor should any of my posts be read as such. Any time I post something, it's in the spirit of, "This is what works for me, to meet the goals that I have when I'm in the field," not, "There can only be one true way to hammock, Highlander!"
My post in the other thread was simply to explain why I don't find Kammock's product line particularly attractive for my goals: their price point and weight is not in line with what I prefer in my equipment. This doesn't reflect an opinion that anyone using their equipment is less valued than someone who DIYs or uses an Hennessy or a Warbonnet or a BIAS or a Dream Hammock or...or...or... A person is not their equipment.
On the other hand, there is definitely a correlation between the time spent researching gear and the quality of the gear purchased for the purpose it was designed. An ENO hammock or a Kammock or a Grand Trunk is not a bad hammock. However, each of those is more likely to be used by someone looking for a lounger or backyard hammock than someone backpacking, due to the features offered. If one is looking for a backyard hammock or lounger, those are wonderful pieces of equipment (with the exception of the original 'biners on the Kammocks and the nylon straps on the ENOs)
That doesn't mean that they can't be used for backpacking, even by very experienced backpackers, car campers, and hammockers. It just means that they aren't as lightweight (providing the user with less burden in what can be a very physically demanding hobby when talking about backpacking) and are not generally sold with the options that other vendors have (such as integrated bug nets and--with some--suspensions). Their build quality can be great, but it can also be less-than-stellar (ENO's nylon suspension straps are a good example), making for a bit of a crapshoot until one does the research to find out what works from those vendors and what doesn't.
With cottage vendors, frequently, the build quality is astonishing--I've yet to see, personally, a piece of equipment by Warbonnet, BIAS, or Hammock Gear (to name three that I have seen in person) that was anything less than wonderfully put together and very relevant to the uses that it was intended for.
Really, though, the perception of a "noob" hammock (or "newb" or "newbie" or "beginner"...I'm not shooting for derogatory here, just a description that meets the definition of "someone who is just getting into hammocks and hasn't necessarily done a lot of research to see what products are offered yet") is due to marketing more'n anything. ENO and Grand Trunk are marketed through big-box outfitters (REI comes to mind) to folks who haven't done much research into hammocks. (So's Hennessy, for that matter, though they seem to've gone over to a direct-sales business model, similar to what GoLite did this year.) Kammock seems to be shooting for the same crowd (though I could be wrong there). Unfortunately, because of that same marketing, folks who are just getting into this may not know that there are lighter, more full-featured options out there than what's offered at the local (or internet) big box retailer. Heck, they may even wind up with stretchy nylon straps because no one mentioned that nylon stretches.
So, really, what my definition of a "noob" set up is one that isn't particularly well thought-out or researched...not necessarily one that is a specific brand. But it tends more towards those brands at big box outfitters because of the lack of knowledge that those outfitters' salespeople have about what is still, essentially, a niche hobby. "Noob" to me implies ignorance of options, not stupidity or lack of ability.
I hope that wasn't too rambling...
I believe I owe you one interwebz for this post.
"Just prepare what you can and enjoy the rest."
--Floridahanger
You were fragile enough to be offended by a single word, and now you've trolled that one instance into not one but two different argumentative threads.
Best that you do find somewhere else, since you're apparently wrapped to tight for HF.
Craig is going to do us all a favor and not use the term 'noob setup' again. But that's about the worst thing that happened in either of these threads...reading too much into it.
And this seems like a good place to end this conversation.
“I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt.” - Cormac McCarthy
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