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  1. #21
    Senior Member Arson's Avatar
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    People have been asking me about the term "Risk Assessment". It's something all of us do all of the time.... we just don't realize it, or make it a conscious thing.

    When I pull up behind a car at a stoplight, I make sure I'm a safe distance away. When I'm shopping at the grocery, I don't run up and down the isles with my kids in the cart because it could hurt them or someone else. For Firefighting..... I don't walk into a room I don't know how to walk out of. That goes with Fire and EMS runs.

    We are trained at the Fire Dept. to do a risk assessment before we put ourselves into a dangerous situation. It's a "Risk vs. Reward" assessment. Example: There is a house fire and we know that everyone is out of the building. It looks bad, so we decide to hit it with water from the outside where it is safe before we go in to try to salvage some of their possessions. If, when we arrived at the same house, someone said their child was still inside, we might decide to make an interior attack first and get guys inside to rescue the child even though it puts us at a greater risk of injury or death.... Risk vs Reward.

    I have transferred this training over the years to my everyday life in almost all of my decisions. Example: I go to the Olive Garden restaurant with my family for a Friday night dinner. It's packed, and we get seated in the back. I know that if something bad happens in that restaurant that getting my family out the front door that I came in would be difficult to impossible, so as soon as I sit down I'm looking for an alternative exit, routes of egress, suspicious characters, and my complimentary bread sticks.....

    Everyone does this, but because of my job, I do it consciously instead of unconsciously. My life and the life of my crew depend on it.

    When I'm out in the woods and something changes, I consciously re-assess and make changes based on that assessment.

    When the wind suddenly picked up out on the water that day I quickly re-assessed the situation and made changes. I was too late though, and my overconfidence in the water made my earlier risk assessment jaded and improper. It's easy to get complacent when you have long periods of safe landings, and trips. I got lucky and won't be so complacent on the next risk asessment that could put me into a situation I can't get out of.

    "Never walk into a room you can't walk out of." That goes with everything.
    Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ArsonHammockHanger

  2. #22
    Senior Member
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    Not to hijack the thread, but here are some more tips:

    The #1 mistake around here is underestimating the weather. It looks calm & so people go out & are not prepaired.

    Probably #2 is overestimating their skills (me included!). For example, how many kayakers have actually tried to get back into their boat after falling out?

    #3 is not dressing appropriate for the water conditions (not the sunshine, but the water temp).

    We've had people think that shore is close & that they could swim so much better without the lifejacket, so they take it off. Hypothermia sets in & they drown.

    In addition to the great list by Oldgringo, I'd suggest a few more items for most of us, even not on the water. A quick clot pack, an Israeli bandage, a tourniquet and an emergency bivy sack.

  3. #23
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    Thanks for your story. You can't be too careful, and you can't over-plan. Nobody ever died from having too much gear to deal with any situation, but plenty of people have died from not having enough.Two major enemies of the human body in the outdoors--wet and cold.

    Glad you and your friend made it out alive. From some of the stories I've read on the HF website, there are a lot of people who can learn from your experience, and from your constant reliance on risk assessment.

    Your story jams home another point. Things can go to hell in a matter of seconds, and one bad decision can trigger a cascade of consequences, each contributing to make the situation more dire.

    I've been in a couple of very close scrapes in the wild myself, and a friend and I saved another man's life in a very bad situation. Nature is cruel and unforgiving, and particularly brutal to the stupid and unprepared.

    Don't beat yourself up. Learn from the mistakes that were made and never repeat them.

  4. #24
    Senior Member jayf124's Avatar
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    Been following your posts since they came out....GREAT STUFF, Arson. It's great that you're sharing all of this with us.

    A few of the replies have got me thinking about size of survival items though. I see here as well as and in other readings about survival, "survival kits" that are for sale in various places, etc. that people sometimes focus on having small items in their kits.

    Just my opinion....but I think in certain situations, especially around water or when the elements are right for hypothermia that this may be a mistake.

    A couple examples:

    If I was shivering and having a hard time working with numb hands I don't think a Swiss Army Classic would do me much good....where I might be able to work better with a reasonably sized fixed-blade knife.

    Stormproof matches? I have a hard enough time not breaking those with smooth, accurate hands. A mini bic? Probably not either. I think I might have better luck with full size bic (without the safety dealio) or a stormproof lighter.

    Once again.....just my opinion and a couple examples of my preferences.

    Jay

  5. #25
    Senior Member AKA Pete's Avatar
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    Fanny/Butt Pack

    Quote Originally Posted by nothermark View Post
    ....My thought is that in a canoe I can wear a small fanny pack that is independent of my life jacket or pack........
    Couple of thoughts. Did a good bit of water work in small boats while in the Army.

    It was never planned to lose your rucksack but you always planned as if you would. What you needed to survive with was on you.

    What one needs to survive might be way too Spartan for others but......

    A one quart/Liter water bottle that will fit in a butt pack is a good start. Add a metal cup that fits on the bottom and now you're ready for the inside. Start with a large contractor's grade plastic bag - folded out of the box it takes up very little room in the bottle and can be used as a ground cloth, rain fly or poncho depending on how it's cut - with the knife on your belt.

    20' of suspension line tight rolled - can be gutted and pulled apart to make around 100' of light string for shelter.

    Light weight foil survival blanket, one of those cheap plastic emergency ponchos from the dollar store, 6 or so bullion cubes, couple packs of hot cocoa, little container of lifeboat matches - and a metal match if you want, and a candle stub a couple of inches long.

    Fill the rest of the bottle with what you feel you might need/want - beef jerky, etc. The bottle will keep everything dry until you need them - hopefully never.

    Thoughts on metal matches. They are a great backup for matches but if you're not well practiced in starting a fire with them I'd use them only as backup. So practice starting fires with them when you're out on regular trips. That is kinda' fun with the kids.

    As a side note - waterproofed packs float for a long time. If a couple are tied into a small boat they will keep it afloat. If not - look for it as it floats out and use it as a float to help you get to shore.

    And then some Saturday take your set up out for an overnighter somewhere and practice with the contents - then refine the contents when you get home.....

    .....some day you may be glad you did.

  6. #26
    Senior Member AaronAlso's Avatar
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    Sounds to me that despite a potentially catostropic event your training kicked in and you were able to effect self-rescue. Bravo! Not everyone is able to do that. Yes, it was lucky that your gear survived. But, your training was the most important piece of gear you had with you in that circumstance.

    Events like this remind me that being as ultralight as possible can be a safety risk. I often wonder about the people who bring a mini-bic and a keychain multi-tool as their fire starter & knife. Is it lightweight? Sure! Is it sufficient for an emergency situation? Hardly! Especially solo, or in small groups (1-4) it's important to remember to put safety in the priority list over lightweight. If everyone carries a proper knife and small basic survival kit. In the event of worst case scenario there should still be enough basic supplies & knowledge in the group to effect self-rescue. In larger groups I do feel there is safety in numbers and being UL is less of a safety risk.

    I like Dave Canterbery's school of thought...

    2 is 1 and 1 is none: always have a secondary/back-up for your most important items. Knife, fire, water, shelter, ect. They don't have to be fancy, they don't have to be rugged, they have to function temporarily and be available if the primary fails or is lost.

    Survival means life or death: If you find yourself in an emergency situation in the wilderness you've already made a mistake. Learning the skills to be "self-sufficient" in the wilderness is the best way to avoid a survival situation. The "Pathfinder Shcool" isn't a survival course; it is a wilderness self-sufficiency course.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

  7. #27
    Senior Member Ekul's Avatar
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    Tks Arson for the video. Glad you made it out! Now get back in there buddy. I will now clip my firesteel to my PFD. Glad you went out with a buddy!

  8. #28
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    Arson, here's another story like yours that turned out much more sadly...

    http://www.heraldnet.com/article/201...kayak-accident

  9. #29
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    Really glad to have watched your video, Arson. For several reasons, one of which is that I'm seriously considering getting a small sit on top kayak for jaunting around a couple of the lakes here in the area. I fully intend to have a PFD vest as well as lanyards to my paddle and from the 'yak to me if at all possible from day 1.

    But, the reason I responded is because I wanted to suggest as an option to look at the Ribz packs.

    I ALWAYS have carried a buttpack as someone else mentioned earlier (think we went to some of the same schools in the Army back in the day), but have since opted to use a Ribz pack instead. I carry a pretty complete kit in mine, with all of the gear you mentioned plus more. It would take a lot of tossing around to get that thing off of me without me intentionally taking it off.

    One other suggestion to add to your "kit". Trash bags. Trash bags are GREAT! One 55 gal contractor bag along with your space blanket can do WONDERS to help you survive. Shelter, cold weather gear, etc...

    Glad to hear that you and your partner came out alright, my friend. Thanks for sharing this with us.

  10. #30
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
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    WOW! Thanks for sharing your story, well told. I am going to reassess some of my emergency kit. I always go solo and admit, I probably go a little too light sometimes. I'm well prepared, but this motivates me to bulk up my survival gear and state of preparedness. Glad you guys are ok!

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