Abandon Tree Straps?

[angrysparrow]

Hey folks, everyone please take a deep breath. The direct comments about Tinny as a person have to stop now, or this thread will have to be closed. Full stop.

As to whether he's giving out some bad info...well that's his own doing, not HF or its members..... We are here to help spread good info and discussion about hammocks, but not to crusade or proselytize about 'best uses' all over the net.

Maybe something interesting will become of the IX and tree-hugger experiments...maybe not. We'll just have to watch and see.

But it's not worth the effort (or going to be tolerated) to besmirch someone for holding an opinion that's contrary to yours. Especially when it was not even posted here.

[mugs]

Hey folks, everyone please take a deep breath. The direct comments about Tinny as a person have to stop now, or this thread will have to be closed. Full stop.

As to whether he's giving out some bad info...well that's his own doing, not HF or its members..... We are here to help spread good info and discussion about hammocks, but not to crusade or proselytize about 'best uses' all over the net.

Maybe something interesting will become of the IX and tree-hugger experiments...maybe not. We'll just have to watch and see.

But it's not worth the effort (or going to be tolerated) to besmirch someone for holding an opinion that's contrary to yours. Especially when it was not even posted here.

Yes you are right. I will admit my comments bothered me last night when I went to bed. I often am "..........." as well, just ask my wife.

So I apologize to the HF family and to Tiny.

Keep on experimenting Tiny...That's how you have progressed to building such great stoves....I remember when they were two RedBull cans put together with flashing tape....man that was a long time ago.

Maybe do a test with someone of more weight then 160...I would like to see 200, 250, 300+ as well. It won't stop me from using tree straps, but it would be a neat test none the less.

[SlowBro]

Please note that when I started this thread it was not to bash Tinny, but to see what people thought about the idea of not using straps.

Obviously the vast majority have chimed in that they use straps for a variety of reasons. And these have all been set forth in the preceding posts. I think what emerged for me is that we may want to pay as much attention to our tarp lines as we do to our hammock suspensions.

Thinking about how much I crank on that razor thin tarp line to get it tight, but more importantly realizing that wind loading the tarp causes substantial forces on that tarp line. In addition, gusty winds may cause back and forth movement to the lines that could saw right into the bark.

A few have mentioned rethinking their tarp set up, as I am now, and some already are using strap for their tarp.

Anyone else think some kind of tree strap for tarps is a good idea? Can I get away with some 1/2 inch webbing? Ideas.....?

[FLRider]

Please note that when I started this thread it was not to bash Tinny, but to see what people thought about the idea of not using straps.

Obviously the vast majority have chimed in that they use straps for a variety of reasons. And these have all been set forth in the preceding posts. I think what emerged for me is that we may want to pay as much attention to our tarp lines as we do to our hammock suspensions.

Thinking about how much I crank on that razor thin tarp line to get it tight, but more importantly realizing that wind loading the tarp causes substantial forces on that tarp line. In addition, gusty winds may cause back and forth movement to the lines that could saw right into the bark.

A few have mentioned rethinking their tarp set up, as I am now, and some already are using strap for their tarp.

Anyone else think some kind of tree strap for tarps is a good idea? Can I get away with some 1/2 inch webbing? Ideas.....?

Well, if the average hammock strap is one inch wide, then we can figure out how much stress the tarp will put on its straps via some assumptions (note: I am most definitely not an engineer, so this may be well out in left field).

Let's assume that the line being used for the CRL on the tarp is 2.2mm Zing-It. According to this source, the breaking strength of the line is 580 lbs. That means (and feel free to correct me here if I'm wrong) that the maximum loading on the tree strap can be 580 lbs. However, it is much more likely that the force would be limited by the guylines. If one is using Zing-It for those as well (likely, given some of the set-ups I've seen detailed here), then the forces involved could be that high as well.

Let's use me as a dummy (not a stretch there) for laying in the hammock. Right now, I weigh close enough to 200 lbs including the hammock as to make no difference to our force calculations. Per Sgt. Rock's site, a perfect 30 degree hang would produce 200 pounds of force on the hammock suspension. That means, that with a 6" diameter tree (about as narrow as I feel comfortable hanging from), and a 1" width tree strap, I'd be providing 200 / (6 * pi) lbs per square inch. So, about 10.6 psi. If I had a less-than perfect hang (say, 15 degrees), that would increase to 21.2 psi or so.

Going back to the tarp, that means that we should probably use straps that are at least 1" in width. I find it unlikely that the tarp will provide 580 lbs of force on the straps (I'm reasonably sure that the tarp fabric would give way before that...but I could be wrong...), but if it does, then you're looking at about 30.8 psi...or almost three times the amount caused by me in a perfect hang.

So, personally, I'm going to be using the same width straps as my hammock for my tarp from here on out. I'm sure that someone with more engineering or mathematical experience than I will chime in shortly, but 'till then, that's enough to convince me.

[packeagle]

I find it unlikely that the tarp will provide 580 lbs of force on the straps (I'm reasonably sure that the tarp fabric would give way before that..

I would imagine that its less because of this. I used grosgrain as the tie outs for my tarp. I cant imagine that has the strength of near 580lbs. I too have had the tarp line dig in but not since switching from a continuous tarp ridge line to separate lines. (I don't feel comfortable wrenching that hard on the tarp itself)

[FLRider]

I would imagine that its less because of this. I used grosgrain as the tie outs for my tarp. I cant imagine that has the strength of near 580lbs. I too have had the tarp line dig in but not since switching from a continuous tarp ridge line to separate lines. (I don't feel comfortable wrenching that hard on the tarp itself)

Considering that I can deform the (I think plastic, but they could be some other material that's similar) tie-out attachment points on my Hennessy hex tarp with my hands, I'm pretty sure that they'd give way before reaching anything close to that amount of force. Still, as a worst-case scenario, it is worth looking at...

[fallkniven]

First off, I'm quite new to the hammock camping. But I have to ask, what's wrong with plain ol' parachute cord. I've been using 550 paracord for years on everything. It's cheap, incredibly strong and durable, yet thin and light weight. On my Grand Trunk UL that I bring out to have a quick seat, I use a piece doubled with square knots going down so all I have to do is wrap it around the tree and hook it on the best fitting notch. At $10 for 100ft you can't beat it. It has a 550lb. breaking strength, will work good for pulling the tarp tight, and durable enough where repeated rubbing against the bark doesn't hurt it. But at that price it's no worry. I just picked up a 1000ft roll for $50.

[G.L.P.]

First off, I'm quite new to the hammock camping. But I have to ask, what's wrong with plain ol' parachute cord. I've been using 550 paracord for years on everything. It's cheap, incredibly strong and durable, yet thin and light weight. On my Grand Trunk UL that I bring out to have a quick seat, I use a piece doubled with square knots going down so all I have to do is wrap it around the tree and hook it on the best fitting notch. At $10 for 100ft you can't beat it. It has a 550lb. breaking strength, will work good for pulling the tarp tight, and durable enough where repeated rubbing against the bark doesn't hurt it. But at that price it's no worry. I just picked up a 1000ft roll for $50.

i love paracord... the only drawback is when wet it can stretch
but i always have some on me

[myles to go]

I think your onto something SloBro! I too have seen marks left by my tarp ridgeline so I plan to make straps to use with the tarp as well, making a positive from a negative

[OutandBack]

I think your onto something SloBro! I too have seen marks left by my tarp ridgeline so I plan to make straps to use with the tarp as well, making a positive from a negative

I to like the idea of having some smaller lighter tree straps for my tarp's RL.

I have made marks in the bark when pulling the ridgeline tight using the tree for leverage.

In Colorado there are a few trees that really ooze tree sap. I try to avoid them but sometimes you just can't.
Having a small set of straps that could be stuffed separate would keep everything else cleaner.

Then there's the times I have to camp in an established camp ground. The camp host has always visited with interest on my
hammock/tarp kit. Pointing out the tree straps has always brought a smile and head nod of approval.