Griz Beaks - gram-weenie question of the day

[GrizzlyAdams]

I have a full pack that comes out to just over 15 pounds...I struggle with this Concept...If I lost only 5 pounds (80 oz) from my gut it would be free and make hiking that much easier...or spend hundreds of dollars to save 16 oz??

I struggle with spending my way into a lighter hike...I must just cut back on the food when not using my gear in nature. Just a thought and something I struggle with, not getting that nice Titanium cook set and saving 6 oz.

ouch! Been having that same thought over the years.

There is a difference though. The extra body weight is distributed and I don't think one "feels" the difference in say 10 lbs so much as you do the difference between 25 and 35 pounds on your back.

but your point is still very valid...

[vinnya42]

very true...i think this is my big struggle....we all love our new toys, especially when it saves weight!!

[TeeDee]

TiredFeet pointed me to this thread and it has spurred an idea I'm going to try.

TiredFeet's idea of using polyester is great, wish I'd thought of it. However, after searching neither of us has been able to find any really light weight polyester fabric. Rockywoods has lots of polyester fabric listed, but when they do bother with listing a weight it is usually in the 3 to 4 oz/sq yd range.

Which brings me to Grizz Beaks using polyester Organza.

Polyester Organza has at least 2 advantages:

1. weight. The polyester Organza I've been getting locally weighs in at 0.9 oz/sq yd. That's lighter than silnyl.
2. It is a very tight weave and so will block at least most and probably all wind and rain. In a very strong wind and rain, there might be some spray that gets through the weave, but it would have to be a very strong wind to get far past the organza.
3. color - Organza comes in a variety of colors, so I can pick a color to match my tarps. Color co-ordinated beaks and tarp, whats not to like .
4. polyester doesn't absorb water, so the the rain wetted organza beaks should dry quickly by wiping with a dry towel. So water weight shouldn't be a problem.

Now the Grizz beaks, and tarp doors in general, do not have to really block rain like a tarp would. At least as I understand their use. Those who have used Grizz beaks and/or tarp doors may want to help on this point and explain why maybe silnyl is essential.

I have gotten in the habit of using Grizz's idea of orienting my hammock during wind and/or rain with the wind coming parallel to the line between the trees instead of perpendicular, broadside to the tarp. With the trees of a sufficient size they block most of the wind as Grizz determined and with beaks or doors, the trees could be even smaller since they only have to protect the small gap between the beaks or doors. That means that the Organza only has to deflect the wind and rain and not present an impenetrable barrier like a tarp does.

Hmmmm, another trip to JoAnne Fabrics or Hancock Fabrics is now in my future.

[MAD777]

Hi TeeDee, the thought of organza flashed through my mind but, since I have never seen any, much less used it, I dismissed it as being too fragile. But that was my totally uneducated assumption. I know many love it for a bug net.

[Knotty]

This might be helpful for working with organza.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ed=0CCoQ9QEwCg

[Violent Green]

TiredFeet's idea of using polyester is great, wish I'd thought of it. However, after searching neither of us has been able to find any really light weight polyester fabric. Rockywoods has lots of polyester fabric listed, but when they do bother with listing a weight it is usually in the 3 to 4 oz/sq yd range.

These polyesters should be in the 1-1.5 oz per sq yd range. Wasn't sure if you wanted coated/uncoated so put a link for both. Each have a ripstop pattern.

http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/p...38838891f19b15

http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/p...38838891f19b15

Ryan

[TeeDee]

Hi TeeDee, the thought of organza flashed through my mind but, since I have never seen any, much less used it, I dismissed it as being too fragile. But that was my totally uneducated assumption. I know many love it for a bug net.

I've found Organza to be very strong and not very fragile. In comparison with noseeum or nanoseeum, I would judge it stronger than either and less fragile than either. I know that Velcro can tear either noseeum or nanoseeum, but cannot tear Organza.

Another thing I like about Organza is the selvage. If you plan things right you can leave the selvage and use it. That leaves one less edge to hem, less work. I've always heard that the first thing to do is to cut off the selvage, but the best seamstresses I have known have made some very nice garments in which they incorporated the selvage as part of the decoration. Also, the selvage is probably stronger than hemming.

This might be helpful for working with organza.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ed=0CCoQ9QEwCg

Thanks - I'll have to read that closely.

These polyesters should be in the 1-1.5 oz per sq yd range. Wasn't sure if you wanted coated/uncoated so put a link for both. Each have a ripstop pattern.

http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/p...38838891f19b15

http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/p...38838891f19b15

Ryan

Ahhh - Kitebuilder. I've purchased from them in the past.

2 things to watch out with that site:

1. They list weights using a sailmakers yard which is smaller than a "normal" square yard. Also, it isn't really square. Google sailmakers yard for a definition. Since a sailmakers yard is smaller than a normal square yard, the weights listed are smaller than they would be if computed using a normal square yard. For example, weight listed at 1.1 oz using a sailmakers yard could be 1.3 or 1.4 or whatever using a normal square yard (too lazy to do the conversion now). That can really catch you by surprise the first time. I ordered a fabric they listed at what seemed like a really small weight, when I got it and measured and weighed it, it wasn't anywhere near what they listed. Called and asked about that and the guy that answered the phone was more than a little angry and informed me that they used the sailmakers yard. I think he had had trouble about that in the past. Since you want the lightest fabric possible for a kite, they list it like they do. I guess those who build kites are probably used to it by now.
2. The fabric I had ordered was very stiff. It was like it had been soaked in starch. Not really good for anything to do with hammocks. I concluded, maybe erroneously, that for a kite it was better to use a really stiff fabric and not one that is very flexible like you would want to lay in in a hammock.

So be careful about ordering fabrics from that site.

[Violent Green]

Ahhh - Kitebuilder. I've purchased from them in the past.

2 things to watch out with that site:

1. They list weights using a sailmakers yard which is smaller than a "normal" square yard. Also, it isn't really square. Google sailmakers yard for a definition. Since a sailmakers yard is smaller than a normal square yard, the weights listed are smaller than they would be if computed using a normal square yard. For example, weight listed at 1.1 oz using a sailmakers yard could be 1.3 or 1.4 or whatever using a normal square yard (too lazy to do the conversion now). That can really catch you by surprise the first time. I ordered a fabric they listed at what seemed like a really small weight, when I got it and measured and weighed it, it wasn't anywhere near what they listed. Called and asked about that and the guy that answered the phone was more than a little angry and informed me that they used the sailmakers yard. I think he had had trouble about that in the past. Since you want the lightest fabric possible for a kite, they list it like they do. I guess those who build kites are probably used to it by now.
2. The fabric I had ordered was very stiff. It was like it had been soaked in starch. Not really good for anything to do with hammocks. I concluded, maybe erroneously, that for a kite it was better to use a really stiff fabric and not one that is very flexible like you would want to lay in in a hammock.

So be careful about ordering fabrics from that site.

It's not just that site, most kite supply sites use a sailmaker's yard unless stated otherwise(assuming because that's how they purchase it from the mfg'er). Hence the 1.1-1.5oz I threw in there.

Ryan