Question: Has anyone measured their hammock purchased from the store?

[OfftheGround]

Hey fellas - I had a question for you: "Has anyone measured their recently purchased hammock from a specialty retailer (brands that supply to mass)?"

I ask because I have been perplexed as to how some hammock sizes are very different from what is advertised. I don't want to point to any specific brands, but I am curious because we are ironing out marketing/etc before launching our website.

We have been measuring our Kammok ROO by the 'usable dimensions' meaning that the advertised dimensions will be what the user would be able to measure (they will be the same with a 1-2cm positive variant allowance). The ROO is 5'7" x 10' (170cm x 300cm). I'm wondering if the industry standard is to measure another way ie. pre-cut fabric dimensions, etc. I am asking with sincerity because we want to know if there is something we are missing. Our 5'7" x 10' is coming out to be larger than some others that are advertised as being larger than that.

Any help and/or insight would be much appreciated!

[DaleW]

Specifications for outdoor gear seem to be in the Wild West category. Those of us who practice ultralight hiking have found that weights, pack volumes and temperature claims vary all over the map.

The other fun thing is that manufacturers keep the same model name after making significant changes. The GoLite Jam pack is a good example, as is the Osprey Stratos 24.

I would expect the dimensions for a simple open hammock to be the perimeter of the ungathered fabric. My Grand Trunk Ultralight was right on spec measured that way. If that doesn't represent the product well due to design concerns, then spell it out and/or include a diagram. For example, Hennessy gives the measurements on the diagonal; Clark gives inside dimensions. User weight and height recommendations should always be mentioned. The Warbonnet Hammocks 101 page is an excellent way to communicate with the consumer: http://warbonnetoutdoors.com/hammocking101.php

Recommended user weights are an interesting part of hammock buying. Contrast the Grand Trunk Ultralight and the Hennessy Expedition hammocks: both are rated at 250 pounds. The GTUL is a thin, transparent polyester fabric and the Hennessy uses 210 D oxford nylon. The Grand Trunk Nano 7 is spec'd as 1.7oz ripstop and rated at 300 pounds and the Warbonnet Traveler single layer 1.7 is rated at 250 pounds. Go figure.

[OfftheGround]

Specifications for outdoor gear seem to be in the Wild West category. Those of us who practice ultralight hiking have found that weights, pack volumes and temperature claims vary all over the map.

The other fun thing is that manufacturers keep the same model name after making significant changes. The GoLite Jam pack is a good example, as is the Osprey Stratos 24.

I would expect the dimensions for a simple open hammock to be the perimeter of the ungathered fabric. My Grand Trunk Ultralight was right on spec measured that way. If that doesn't represent the product well due to design concerns, then spell it out and/or include a diagram. For example, Hennessy gives the measurements on the diagonal; Clark gives inside dimensions. User weight and height recommendations should always be mentioned. The Warbonnet Hammocks 101 page is an excellent way to communicate with the consumer: http://warbonnetoutdoors.com/hammocking101.php

Recommended user weights are an interesting part of hammock buying. Contrast the Grand Trunk Ultralight and the Hennessy Expedition hammocks: both are rated at 250 pounds. The GTUL is a thin, transparent polyester fabric and the Hennessy uses 210 D oxford nylon. The Grand Trunk Nano 7 is spec'd as 1.7oz ripstop and rated at 300 pounds and the Warbonnet Traveler single layer 1.7 is rated at 250 pounds. Go figure.

Dale,

Very much appreciated! Great info, and I'm glad for the sugestion on the diagonal dimension...we hadn't thought of that. We expected the same: measuring the perimeter of the ungatherd fabric. We were wondering if some were measure from rope ends, from attached caribiner ends, or from pre-stitched/cut fabric ends.

As far as the pounds go, that seems like a liability issue rather than what the fabric is capable of holding. We are rating the Kammok ROO at 500lbs but the materials and construction are designed to hold more weight. We've wondered if their is a ratio that is used to calculate safe weight limits. We'll leave that up to the professionals

Thanks!

[oldgringo]

The GT Double is advertised as 10-6, I measured mine from suspension to suspension, for purposes of setting ridge line length, and it was only 9-7. I assume the longer figure is cut size, prior to hemming. Misleading, to say the least.

[DaleW]

......

As far as the pounds go, that seems like a liability issue rather than what the fabric is capable of holding. We are rating the Kammok ROO at 500lbs but the materials and construction are designed to hold more weight. We've wondered if their is a ratio that is used to calculate safe weight limits. We'll leave that up to the professionals

500 pounds when? Out of the box or after two years and a lot of ultraviolet exposure? Sounds extreme to me. Fabric stretch and user comfort is (or should be) part of the recommendation as well as safety. What a particular design feels like to a 160 pound user may be very different to a 250 pounder. The fabric and suspension will take a different shape, let alone the room available. Getting a 300 pound cowboy into a Nano 7 would be an adventure!

[AaronAlso]

I can say for sure my ENO Double Nest is not the 6'8" x 9'10" as advertised on their website. I measure a few inches short both ways even with the fabric stretched out. It is a lil disheartening, and initially I felt like I got robbed, but it works for me so I got over it. Still I would have preferred accurate product representation.

[DemostiX]

Dale,

As far as the pounds go, that seems like a liability issue rather than what the fabric is capable of holding. We are rating the Kammok ROO at 500lbs but the materials and construction are designed to hold more weight. We've wondered if their is a ratio that is used to calculate safe weight limits. We'll leave that up to the professionals

Thanks!

Uh.....YOU are the professionals. You are selling a product and warranteeing it safe and effective for prudent use. Selling product against others with claims for product or performance that are true a smaller fraction of the time is a problem.

When consumers care enough about risk transferal they can look to prior testing. Of course, producers can do the same thing.

I started a thread in the Clark sub-forum, asking nothing more than for those with access to Clark tarps to measure and report the dimensions of the tarps. One interpretation of the negligible response when so many could be the first to report is the "Enemy of the People" response, protecting value. That's also one reason for agents: What the agent doesn't know isn't being directly withheld from the other party. It is one step removed.

I applaud you for wishing to be direct and correct about the characterstics and performance of your hammocks.

It will cost you to destructively test some hammocks to failure; and if you do, you will have done more than most. Whether those tests matter to your success is another matter. But, you could have fun doing it and advertising it.

It is also worth mentioning that Tom Claytor explicitly ranks one of his hammocks as more durable than another of his own at his web page.

[DemostiX]

Specifications for outdoor gear seem to be in the Wild West category. Those of us who practice ultralight hiking have found that weights, pack volumes and temperature claims vary all over the map. <snip>

The other fun thing is that manufacturers keep the same model name after making significant changes. <snip>

The Grand Trunk Nano 7 is spec'd as 1.7oz ripstop and rated at 300 pounds and the Warbonnet Traveler single layer 1.7 is rated at 250 pounds. Go figure.

I have an exchange going with Grand Trunk for over a month simply trying to find out if the Nano 7 has changed. I bought mine before I bought an Arrowhead UQ; and if the Nano 7 I have is of 1.7 ripstop (and 9 feet long, as currently advertised, then both Grand Trunk and Paul Gibson sew some anti-gravity into their products. Or maybe GT sews the ag in, and Arrowhead achieves the same by entrapping helium in the insulation. The fabrics are the same weight.

[AaronAlso]

Uh.....YOU are the professionals. You are selling a product and warranteeing it safe and effective for prudent use. Selling product against others with claims for product or performance that are true a smaller fraction of the time is a problem.

When consumers care enough about risk transferal they can look to prior testing. Of course, producers can do the same thing.

I started a thread in the Clark sub-forum, asking nothing more than for those with access to Clark tarps to measure and report the dimensions of the tarps. One interpretation of the negligible response when so many could be the first to report is the "Enemy of the People" response, protecting value. That's also one reason for agents: What the agent doesn't know isn't being directly withheld from the other party. It is one step removed.

I applaud you for wishing to be direct and correct about the characterstics and performance of your hammocks.

It will cost you to destructively test some hammocks to failure; and if you do, you will have done more than most. Whether those tests matter to your success is another matter. But, you could have fun doing it and advertising it.

I think this is an important aspect that is lacking in the hammock industry. Sure alot of the cottage shops will stand by there products and get aot of mention from those that own them. But the manufacture showing a prospective customer that they have such faith in their product that they will go the extra mile to prove it's durability, ect., that means alot to me. I assume it means alot to others as well. The first example that comes to mind is Coldsteel. Youtube abound with videos from the company demonstrating the capability of their products. And, it's not hype, it's a real deal demo if a product fails at a certain point, then the consumer knows ahead of time where the line is for that products limitations. I, personally, think it's an ingenius market strategy.

[OfftheGround]

Uh.....YOU are the professionals. You are selling a product and warranteeing it safe and effective for prudent use. Selling product against others with claims for product or performance that are true a smaller fraction of the time is a problem.

When consumers care enough about risk transferal they can look to prior testing. Of course, producers can do the same thing.

I started a thread in the Clark sub-forum, asking nothing more than for those with access to Clark tarps to measure and report the dimensions of the tarps. One interpretation of the negligible response when so many could be the first to report is the "Enemy of the People" response, protecting value. That's also one reason for agents: What the agent doesn't know isn't being directly withheld from the other party. It is one step removed.

I applaud you for wishing to be direct and correct about the characterstics and performance of your hammocks.

It will cost you to destructively test some hammocks to failure; and if you do, you will have done more than most. Whether those tests matter to your success is another matter. But, you could have fun doing it and advertising it.

It is also worth mentioning that Tom Claytor explicitly ranks one of his hammocks as more durable than another of his own at his web page.

Hey DemostiX!

Sorry about the confusion about my comment of "we'll leave that up to the professionals". I was referring to the insurance/legal professionals because I was addressing the liability issue. Our Kammok ROO has been tested for well over what we are rating it for..500lbs.

This is one question we've had from the beginning, as far as the industry standard for measuring. Thanks so much for your input!