Cuben / Spinn Tarps State of the Market?

[BER]

Just a quick though regarding SpinnUL. Has anyone tried DIY silicone treatment of any of the various 0.5oz polyester ripstops that are available from kite/sail making sites? Granted the convention seems that "0.5oz" in regards to these fabrics seems to be much more of an estimate than true measurement, and that they use sailmaker yards rather than square yards for their measurements. But if one found a suitable fabric at "0.5oz", ie ~0.62oz/sq yd, and then did a DIY coating, could you approximate SpinnUL?

I'm not actually looking to do this. Just an idle thought. Some of these kite fabrics are pretty inexpensive.

[AaronAlso]

Love your avatar, Pinnacle.

Cuban is pretty strong stuff though. I think it's susceptible to pointy things, just like any tarp...but I think it has a breaking point equal to or better than sil.

The cost difference does give me pause.

z-packs has a video on youtube demonstrating the puncture and tear strenth of cuben from .3 - 1.5 oz/sq yd. Personally I was not really impressed until he got to the 1.2oz stuff. When you consider that oz for oz it is more durable than silny is it really worth the cost. Granted most people go for the lighter material to save weight but from what I saw the .5oz & .7oz cuben is only moderately comparible to 1.1oz sil, at approximately 3x the cost.

[Lonely Raven]

Thanks Lonely Raven.

I totally agree with you about the strength of cuben. My friend had his cuben and I with my sil were on the same week long campout. They both weathered the storms we had very well. But that price tag gets me. For me the weight savings is 11 ozs over the sil, thats $18 an ounce!

For reference I use to have a Deuter backpack(7lbs). I just sold it and got a ULA(36 ozs). To me thats a great trade off.

My old sleeping bag weighed 4 lbs. My top quilt weight 21 ozs. Thats $4.65 an ounce.

If you are considering buying cuben, try to get your hands on some first. My friend was very disappointed when he first opened his cuben tarp up. In his words he "felt like he had spent 300 bucks on a trash bag." They are super thin.

Good point on the cost per oz lost.

That said, you hit a clear point of diminishing returns pretty quick with UL gear. Reminds me of drag racing...you can spend $50k on a great motor to get you to 10 seconds, but every .1 second past that costs another $50k (rough example).

So pick the low hanging fruit first.

[Amelander]

z-packs has a video on youtube demonstrating the puncture and tear strenth of cuben from .3 - 1.5 oz/sq yd. Personally I was not really impressed until he got to the 1.2oz stuff. When you consider that oz for oz it is more durable than silny is it really worth the cost. Granted most people go for the lighter material to save weight but from what I saw the .5oz & .7oz cuben is only moderately comparible to 1.1oz sil, at approximately 3x the cost.

Excellent point AaronAlso. I too have seen that video and was impressed with the strength of the 1.2oz stuff. But at that point there is no weight savings.

[AaronAlso]

Just a quick though regarding SpinnUL. Has anyone tried DIY silicone treatment of any of the various 0.5oz polyester ripstops that are available from kite/sail making sites? Granted the convention seems that "0.5oz" in regards to these fabrics seems to be much more of an estimate than true measurement, and that they use sailmaker yards rather than square yards for their measurements. But if one found a suitable fabric at "0.5oz", ie ~0.62oz/sq yd, and then did a DIY coating, could you approximate SpinnUL?

I'm not actually looking to do this. Just an idle thought. Some of these kite fabrics are pretty inexpensive.

This thought has crosssed my mind. The only thing stopping me is that I haven't been able to confirm "pure finish" on these fabrics and the excessively bright colors that the .5 & .75oz nylon comes in.

As I nderstand it from the "make your own sil" thread the fabric MUST be pure finish from the mill or the sil will not bond correctly.

I calculate the finished product could be in the .865 - 1.15oz/sq yd and cost in the range of $6-8/linear yard. But then I worry about the durability. Mostly, I'm concerned if it would survive and entire thru-hike.

[Acer]

this forum thread just talked me out of cuban,,I am sticking with silnylon,,as I don't want the noise factor if rain in spinn,,and not a total gram wienie yet,,so the trade off in ounces verses the bucks,,keeps me using silnylon which I really like as a fabric...I know cuban is the tops,,but can't just yet justify the costs.

[stormcrow]

Personally, I also think Cuben Fiber material is priced HIGH. I do not know the process that it takes to make it but I think if we get a few more manufacturers out there making similar stuff there would some price competition...which is always a good thing.

When you get a cuben tarp it can be a little unnerving. The "trash bag" look along with the light weight can be a little scary. Especially given how much was just spent.

Regarding repairs..

Repairing CF3 material is very straightforward and effective. It happens that the process I use for bonding CF3 lends itself to be a great way to repair it as well. Unless it is just mangled I am confident I can fix just about any tear or hole quite efficiently.

I do not have this guarantee on my site yet (because I just thought of it), but for the first year (and probably after than as well) I will fix anything short of a shredded HG Cuben tarp for free. Just pay for postage to get it to me and back to you. I will also repair OTHER manufacturers tarps for a VERY reasonable price.

Anyway, I really love and believe in CF3. And yep, I also think it is too expensive. If i did not make them it would probably take me a while before i could afford one...but I would get one eventually because there are so many things I like about the stuff. As always HYOH

I hope I stayed on the subject with my post. I probably should have stayed out of this topic but I agree with much of what is said. Please do not take my response to this thread as an advertisement. It is most assuredly not meant to be. Thanks everyone.

~Stormcrow

[raiffnuke]

Personally, I also think Cuben Fiber material is priced HIGH. I do not know the process that it takes to make it but I think if we get a few more manufacturers out there making similar stuff there would some price competition...which is always a good thing.

When you get a cuben tarp it can be a little unnerving. The "trash bag" look along with the light weight can be a little scary. Especially given how much was just spent.

Regarding repairs..

Repairing CF3 material is very straightforward and effective. It happens that the process I use for bonding CF3 lends itself to be a great way to repair it as well. Unless it is just mangled I am confident I can fix just about any tear or hole quite efficiently.

I do not have this guarantee on my site yet (because I just thought of it), but for the first year (and probably after than as well) I will fix anything short of a shredded HG Cuben tarp for free. Just pay for postage to get it to me and back to you. I will also repair OTHER manufacturers tarps for a VERY reasonable price.

Anyway, I really love and believe in CF3. And yep, I also think it is too expensive. If i did not make them it would probably take me a while before i could afford one...but I would get one eventually because there are so many things I like about the stuff. As always HYOH

I hope I stayed on the subject with my post. I probably should have stayed out of this topic but I agree with much of what is said. Please do not take my response to this thread as an advertisement. It is most assuredly not meant to be. Thanks everyone.

~Stormcrow

Just out of curiosity, is your repair guarantee covering the Hybrid Phoenix's as well?

[tdilf]

In my limited experience (with stuff sacks anyway), I like that cuben does not seem to absorb any water like silnylon can in ongoing wetness. I guess it would also be true that cuben does not mist through like silnylon in downpours.

[AaronAlso]

@Stormcrow,

I can't speak of OP, be myself I'd like to hear more from owners and producers of cuben products about their experiences & concerns. I'm still on the fence about it.