Insultex - What the heck

[Knotty]

Also note that IX doesn't breathe very well. The only thing that makes it permeable is the stitching holes. In my experiments I found the stuff to be surprisingly warm but in the end it acted like a vapor barrier and everything ended up all wet. Your results may vary.

IMHO it packs best when folded and or rolled. It's a closed cell foam so compressibility seems limited.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=25113

[TiredFeet]

Also note that IX doesn't breathe very well. The only thing that makes it permeable is the stitching holes. In my experiments I found the stuff to be surprisingly warm but in the end it acted like a vapor barrier and everything ended up all wet. Your results may vary.

IMHO it packs best when folded and or rolled. It's a closed cell foam so compressibility seems limited.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=25113

Interesting - I've noticed others have said that Insultex is impermeable and acts as a vapor barrier. If I recall correctly, others have posted just the opposite.

According to this site, the "moisture vapor" is supposed to pass through Insultex. That has been our experience.

I think this, like temperature ratings must be a very personal issue. Neither I nor TeeDee nor any of those TeeDee has made Insultex TQs and UQs for have ever had any condensation issues. Both TeeDee and I also have the Insultex pocnho and have never had any problems with sweating under the poncho like we do with silnyl ponchos. In our experience the Insultex poncho is comparable to the Frogg Togs poncho.

As for compressing Insultex, we just use the JRB stuff sack and stuff until it's all inside the sack. In our experience it compresses better than down. We have left our Insultex TQs and UQs compressed for at least 6 moths with no effect on performance. That is important to both TeeDee and myself, since it is important to us to grab and go. For those who have BOBs, this could be important also.

[Knotty]

Very true. Some people have no condensation problems with IX. Still it reminds me of Tyvek, which is supposedly breathable yet is used by people to make tarps. The polyethylene foam layer in the IX is a closed cell foam. I just can't imagine that being a good transport mechanism for water vapor. Again it seems to work for some but not others. I, for one, tend to produce a lot of moisture.

[Alamosa]

According to this site, the "moisture vapor" is supposed to pass through Insultex. That has been our experience.

I haven't used IX before and have been intrigued by its promises, but I would certainly have to take the claims from this site with a very large grain of salt. Certainly their temperature claims are way off. I would expect any insulation to protect a person to 25*C. Who needs protection at 77*F which is nowhere near the -13*F they also list?

The .42 oz./sq. yd. is a large variation from the 1.5 oz./sq. yd. mentioned by the OP either.

Is IX really 1/50 of an inch thick? Would 3 layers stacked really measure less than 1/16 of an inch?

The HF reports of it not being compressible is another factor that has discouraged me from trying it. That TF reports it being more compressible than down really caught my attention.

Other's experiences with IX would be appreciated. Thanks.

[tammons]

It is extremely thin. So thin, I thought something was missing like the CCF.

I cut a piece for a summer backup UQ and re-weighed and recalced it and mine weighs 1.4 oz per SY exactly.

Its not more compressible than down per volume, but it is thinner to start, so maybe warmth to weight. Actually it does not compress much at all. Sort of like trying to compress a CCF sleeping pad. Enough force will compress it to some degree.

Just guessing I would say 3 layers would be good to 40-45dF if you are a hot sleeper, but a large part of that is due to the vapor barrier effect.
Vapor barrier effect in warmer weather means you will be venting a lot.

What now interests me more than a total insulation package is using it as a liner for a climashield quilt which should boost the rating significantly or as a UQ booster or summer UQ just in case.

I haven't used IX before and have been intrigued by its promises, but I would certainly have to take the claims from this site with a very large grain of salt. Certainly their temperature claims are way off. I would expect any insulation to protect a person to 25*C. Who needs protection at 77*F which is nowhere near the -13*F they also list?

The .42 oz./sq. yd. is a large variation from the 1.5 oz./sq. yd. mentioned by the OP either.

Is IX really 1/50 of an inch thick? Would 3 layers stacked really measure less than 1/16 of an inch?

The HF reports of it not being compressible is another factor that has discouraged me from trying it. That TF reports it being more compressible than down really caught my attention.

Other's experiences with IX would be appreciated. Thanks.

[NFA]

I have a hammock sock with the bottom lined with insultex...I've been very impressed with it's performance in cold weather (although I don't know to what degree I can attribute that to the insultex and/or to the sock)...

Jamie - nfa

[TiredFeet]

I haven't used IX before and have been intrigued by its promises, but I would certainly have to take the claims from this site with a very large grain of salt. Certainly their temperature claims are way off. I would expect any insulation to protect a person to 25*C. Who needs protection at 77*F which is nowhere near the -13*F they also list?

Separating marketing from facts is always fraught with danger. I rely more on first hand reports on HammockForums, than I do their marketing. TeeDee spent a few weeks researching the Insultex and the idigear products made from Insultex. In particular he did a lot of research on the idigear Artic Armour gear used for hunting and ice fishing. In doing his research, he telephoned businesses selling the Artic Armour (when they could keep it in stock - it was usually sold out even before they could receive a shipment) and asked if it was as good as the marketing. He asked for and received the names and phone numbers of people who purchased and used the Artic Armour gear for ice fishing. The unanimous conclusion of both seller and user was that the Artic Armour was as good as the marketing hype which saying a lot about the Artic Armour and the Insultex .

The .42 oz./sq. yd. is a large variation from the 1.5 oz./sq. yd. mentioned by the OP either.

Is IX really 1/50 of an inch thick? Would 3 layers stacked really measure less than 1/16 of an inch?

The fabric that is available for purchase has the Insultex sandwiched between two layers of "scrim" - that's what idigear calls it. The specs you read are for the Insultex itself, alone. The fabric actually purchased is going to be thicker, but still very thin.

The HF reports of it not being compressible is another factor that has discouraged me from trying it. That TF reports it being more compressible than down really caught my attention.

Other's experiences with IX would be appreciated. Thanks.

Well the Insultex itself is probably not very compressible, but then folding down something so thin doesn't really leave much volume.

TeeDee made us full length UQs of 900 fp down and Insultex and TQs of 900 fp down and Insultex. The down UQs and TQs both had between 5" and 5.5" of loft. The weights of the down and Insultex versions are within an oz or so of each other.

This is with the same material used for shells for both the down and the Insultex.

The Insultex UQ is actually larger since it is the full size of the Bridge Hammock. The down UQ has been designed for full length coverage, but not total side to side coverage, providing coverage only where a person is.

The TQs are pretty close to the same length, but the Insultex TQ width is about 10" greater.

We use identical JRB stuff sacks for both the down and the Insultex quilts.

The stuffed size of both the down and the Insultex are nearly identical.

Both the down and the Insultex were compressed as much as possible by kneeling on the sack as the compression strap is tightened down. Seeing as the Insultex quilts had more fabric covering larger areas, the fact that the compressed sizes of the down and Insultex were nearly identical indicates to both of us that the Insultex quilt is more compressible than the down.

Given the 5" to 5'5" loft of the down quilts, we could compute a theoretical temperature rating of the down quilts. Unfortunately there are no known methods (known to TeeDee) for computing a theoretical temperature rating for the Insultex quilts. But our experience to date indicates to us that the Insultex rating for our 3 layer Insultex is not far from the rating of the down quilts. This is for us and could differ considerably for other people as Knotty's experience with condensation attests.

PS: we have never left the down quilts compressed in this manner longer than a few hours, 1 day max. The Insultex quilts have been left compressed in this manner for months at a time. When removed from the stuff sacks, they are very wrinkled, but we view the wrinkles as a benefit since they keep the 3 layers of Insultex better separated and hence enhance the insulating properties. Also, our results may be an end result of both TeeDee's design ability and our use of his Bridge Hammocks. TeeDee spent many weeks designing and experimenting with the Insultex to obtain the proper separation between the 3 layers. My advice is if you are not willing to spend time and waste the Insultex fabric for at least 1 UQ, then you are better off purchasing from McEntyre who has already done that for you. The design and construction of a down quilt is fairly straight forward and well known after many decades of experimentation by hundreds (thousands?) of people and their documentation of their efforts. The same can definitely not be said for Insultex. If you are making an Insultex quilt, you are breaking new ground and experimenting. Please document what you do and accomplish so that others can benefit.

[enoorange]

Yep it sure is thin.

[Alamosa]

TiredFeet, great information and explanation of your experiences. Thanks!

[RootCause]

I know there was a thread where someone built a TQ out of Insultex, but now I can't locate it. (I'm guessing now it was TeeDee's build.)

I would like to make an Insultex topquilt to get me down to approx 35*, can someone point me to a pattern that would get me there without a lot of gyrations? (Two layer or three layer IX- it doesn't matter to me.) I just want to know that I'm getting an appropriate air gap, without putting a lot of fuss into it.

Thanks for anything you can offer up!