Help me with insulation combos, UQ/pads,etc

[jaiden]

so maybe more like:
temp /over /under
over 75 /- /WS (bugs)
70 /WS /-
65 /Stealth /WS
60 /Stealth /ws
55 /Stealth /ws, 1o
50 /Stealth /ws 1o
45 /Stealth /ws, 2o
40 /Stealth /ws, 2o
35 /Stealth /ws, rms
30 /stealth /ws, rms
25 /stealth, clothes, ws /rms
20 /stealth, clothes, ws /rms, 1o
15 /stealth, clothes, ws /rms, 2o
10 /stealth, clothes, ws /rms, 2o
5 /stealth clothes /rms, ws, 2o
0 /too **** cold /rms, ws, 2o, ins

Or as Pan suggests, move the WS to the top for 35 degrees or below, (unless perhaps rain is expected)

I've also got a poncho tarp I could throw in the mix if needed, but I never found a good way to use it, and it's not breathable at all.

[Fiddleback]

...Dual use insulated clothing is an important part of my system. I'm quite averse to being cold sleeping, but have found that I can get by on top with quilts or bags at temps 15-20 below their nominal rating, provided I'm bundled up.

Grizz

Dual-use insulated clothing (and an Oware pad) is my sleep system too. Mine gets me to the mid-20s...already 15 degrees below the rating of my unused quilt. One would expect the quilt to increase the cold capability of the system but the pad (under insulation) is the limiting factor.

One of the difficulties of threads discussng insulation effectiveness is the wide variance experienced depending on the rest of the sleep system.

FB

[jaiden]

For comparison, I slept most of the night at 3 degrees with the RMS and LOTS of clothes, and all the pads (.95" total) underneath. I wasn't WARM, but I was "ok". I am not that interested in single digits again... for now I'm looking to straighten out the 30-70 degree options. I don't want to carry the RMS in the summer.

ok so a new take on this in summary then:
40 degrees and up: stealth top, ws/oware pad(s) under (2.9lb or less)
25-40: stealth and WS top, RMS under (4.5lb), maybe 1 pad
under 25: stealth and WS top, RMS and pads under (up to 5.8lb)

[Peter_pan]

For comparison, I slept most of the night at 3 degrees with the RMS and LOTS of clothes, and all the pads (.95" total) underneath. I wasn't WARM, but I was "ok". I am not that interested in single digits again... for now I'm looking to straighten out the 30-70 degree options. I don't want to carry the RMS in the summer.

ok so a new take on this in summary then:
40 degrees and up: stealth top, ws/oware pad(s) under (2.9lb or less)
25-40: stealth and WS top, RMS under (4.5lb), maybe 1 pad
under 25: stealth and WS top, RMS and pads under (up to 5.8lb)

Ist fundamental question for warm weather....Are you a back sweater.... if so suggest you rethink any pad options in warm weather.

Pan

[jaiden]

Thusfar, I've not had a problem with back sweating, fortunately. If I do you'll be hearing from me again, and I will be hearing from my wife ($ugh$)

[scoutdad]

Maybe it is just me but I keep reading the threads with complex ways to keep warm in a hammock which invariably end up being a bit weighty for meaningful long backpack trips and not to mention expensive.

Personally, I use a 35* Big Agnes bag with a Big Agnes inflatable pad which mates nicely into the sleeve in the bag. My pad is not even the insulated version and is only rated to 35*. When I think it is going to get below maybe 45* or so I carry a rolled up Oware 3/16" CCF pad cut to 20" wide which then slips into my bag along with the inflatable pad. I toss whatever extra clothing I am carrying into the HH to give some insulation along my upper torso. I also wear lightweight long underwear and a thin fleece long sleeve shirt. With that combo I am plenty comfortable to the 30-35* range and my total shelter weight is still reasonable.

The whole "overcover" and "undercover" and "supershelter" concept seems totally contrary to moving light over the trail to me. JMHO.

[angrysparrow]

...With that combo I am plenty comfortable to the 30-35* range and my total shelter weight is still reasonable....

The whole "overcover" and "undercover" and "supershelter" concept seems totally contrary to moving light over the trail to me. JMHO...

Until you discover how light some of those solutions are....one of my weather covers (which adds at least 10ºF, and makes a HUGE difference in keeping blown precipitation at bay) weighs only 9oz. That's a tiny weight penalty for the protection and warmth it offers.

Also, remember that much of the gear you may have read about is for use outside of the moderate 30-35ºF conditions that you addressed.

I recently took a weekend hike during a period of severe thunderstorms. I can't imagine staying as dry (and hence as warm) as I did in the midst of a LOT of blowing precipitation without an expanded coverage tarp and the added protection of a weathershield. YMMV

[scoutdad]

I recently took a weekend hike during a period of severe thunderstorms. I can't imagine staying as dry (and hence as warm) as I did in the midst of a LOT of blowing precipitation without an expanded coverage tarp and the added protection of a weathershield. YMMV

No argument with that. I have a MacCat Deluxe for use when I think conditions are going to be especially wet and/or windy.

[BillyBob58]

Maybe it is just me but I keep reading the threads with complex ways to keep warm in a hammock which invariably end up being a bit weighty for meaningful long backpack trips and not to mention expensive.

I think you have a good point there.

Personally, I use a 35* Big Agnes bag with a Big Agnes inflatable pad which mates nicely into the sleeve in the bag. My pad is not even the insulated version and is only rated to 35*. When I think it is going to get below maybe 45* or so I carry a rolled up Oware 3/16" CCF pad cut to 20" wide which then slips into my bag along with the inflatable pad. I toss whatever extra clothing I am carrying into the HH to give some insulation along my upper torso. I also wear lightweight long underwear and a thin fleece long sleeve shirt. With that combo I am plenty comfortable to the 30-35* range and my total shelter weight is still reasonable.

The whole "overcover" and "undercover" and "supershelter" concept seems totally contrary to moving light over the trail to me. JMHO.

How much does that bag and 2 pads combo weigh? My SS with space blanket weighs somewhere around 19-21 ozs, and easily does the 30s for me ( with adequate top quilt and or clothing combo) , plus giving me some extra wind and rain protection. If I add about 5 ozs worth of kidney/torso pad ( or just some extra clothing that is already with me ), I can easily do the 20s. A few more ozs of Garlington insulator and I have done the teens. Add a pad and I am into handling some serious cold. ( But I have never had to actually use the pad yet, except for one night above timberline, where I had to go to ground. It is there mainly for emergencies of much colder temps than expected, and ground use/sit pad.

I think the Big Agnes is a great hammock combo ( my friend used the 20*(?) Ranger model with a 15* air pad on our last WA Olympics trip, and he really liked it -though now he prefers his PeaPod). But I think the SS is definitely competitive in the "moving light" category, plus it's not super expensive. And again, that extra wind and sideways rain protection really comes in handy with the smaller tarps, especially the light, small stock HH tarp.

[scoutdad]

The BA bag (30), BA pad (22) + Oware CCF pad (6) total 58 ozs. Not as light as I would like but it is a cool weather combination and allows me to use the HH. I have friends who are compelled to carry their 7+ lb 4 season tens in comparable weather. For summertime the BA pad is unnecessary much of the time.

With the bigger MacCat tarp set up tight for bad weather the Overcover seems redundant the way I am set up. The Undercover as an alternative to the BA pad bears some consideration. Problem is that there are times where I can't hang (above treeline and on coastal routes) and I need the BA inflatable pad to keep my hips from grousing at me too much if I have to set up the HH in ground bound mode