Taking the leap of faith - decisions, decisions, decisions...

[MrCrumbles]

Hi y'all!

So, I have trawled through threads, pros and consed the features (or bugs?), wrung myself inside out and then back again w analysis paralysis ending up with the choices of DW Chameleon and SLD Trail Lair. Well, for the moment that is, as it's all on a theoretical basis with no hands-on-proper-camping-hammock experience whatsoever (!)

Now, as I can't even lay eyes on any of them IRL I will have to buy and hope for the best. But there is one thing I can do before that: humbly ask you lot for advice.

I am 6'1", weighs in at 180lb, shoulders slightly over median width and if there are more specs needed I am happy to provide.

Low weight kit means more comfort lugging things around, lowest possible weight limits for the cloth and smallest size. But too small lowers sleeping comfort and comfort is safety but also best chance to see if hammocking hangs well w me (which I really, really want - goodbye bumpy ground killing my back and stealing my sleep). So that's where I'm at: given above specs - which hammock is the best sleeper?

Of course it is impossible to get The One Answer™ but for those who are about my measurements and has 'sleeping experience' with at least one but preferably both of them - which one to choose?

I guess 11' is the length - but wide or regular? Chameleon or Trail Lair? Or should I consider something completely different?

So please, wreck havoc and let slip the dogs of subjective musings.

Thanks in advance!

[FLTurtle]

My 2 cents...

I'm 6'1", 260. My first 'real' hammock was the DW Half Zip (old asym model, current is now sym), then an older model WB Eldorado (70d nylon vs 40d Dreamtex now), and finally ended up with my goto: and DW Chameleon 11' standard width with a sym bug net. Both the DW hammocks are the Hexon 1.6.

On your gear quest, you might get it right on the first try...but for most its a journey. My reason was: the Half Zip was standard lay...I found myself fighting against it, so I got the WB Eldorado and flipped the bugnet for reverse lay. But, same issue. So I ended up with the Chameleon and the symmetrical net. I can flip to either lay all night now. Maybe I could've solved on the first purchase, or at least just got the Chameleon then the symmetrical bug net. But for me, I ended up with some loaner hammocks.

If you're concerned about lowest weight, hammocks are pretty much in line with each other. Double layer obviously and/or heavier materials will add weight, but I chose to shave weight elsewhere. Really, my struggle has been the volume.

But if you wanna go crazy UL...I think Trail Headz has the Wraith...was something like an 8oz 10.5' hammock using that Cloud fabric (basically mesh, you can see through it). I dunno if it's still a thing, there were some issues with that fabric ripping and dumping people to the ground (I think somebody posted here on the forums). Dutch has a video of them loading it: https://youtu.be/UesHXVOuGbE. I really haven't followed it that much...the Hexon 1.6 has been working for me, and I'm ok with the weight difference. If you gonna UL, I think it's hard to beat a trekking pole tent and a pad.

I don't have nor have I seen an SLD Trail Lair, but it looks well designed, it has a bunch more customizations, and it's highly regarded here on HF. Why'd you narrow it down the to the Chameleon vs Trail Lair? Maybe some folks would have insight on your pros/cons.

I see you're in the PNW...there are a bunch of folks that are up there. Check the other subforums for group hangs...it's a good opportunity to check out others peoples stuff up close.

[Phantom Grappler]

A Hexon 1.6 wide, can be a good fabric. No need to use entire 6 feet of width, but 5 feet might be too narrow.
You’ve chosen good vendors. Maybe you can get an 11 foot hammock about 66 inches wide.

A built in zippered bugnet can make warm weather camping more comfortable. Get full zippers on both sides. This takes some guesswork away during set up.

Your vendors can offer advice, they’ve made thousands of hammocks!

I wouldn’t get a double layer hammock, because of weight and bulk while backpacking.

You might want a symmetrical hammock so you can decide if you are right lay or left lay, after you get your hammock. If your hammock is symmetrical, then you can use either right lay or left lay.

Good luck, your choices are just for you!

[JollyRoger70]

I have two Trail Lairs, both in 11’. I started with a double-layer in 1.6 Hexon, with the winter cover, and added a single-layer in 1.7 Foliage Grey (because I wanted a single-layer for backpacking, and that one was on sale). I think once I raise the liquidity, an 11’ in Hexon 1.2 is probably in my future, to have a lighter one for backpacking. The ones I have are very comfortable and well-made. I don’t have a Chameleon, but my sense is that the versatility is a real plus; the net does not come all the way off of the Trail Lair, and the winter cover is in addition to the net rather than instead of it.

At your height, 12’ might be nice, but probably isn’t worth the added weight if you’re aiming for UL. I’m too heavy for monolite or Cloud (I’m 210, 5’11”); I’d be nervous about one of the translucent fabrics for long trips, as I don’t have the sense they have acceptably zero failure rates. That concern may be amplified, though.


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[Shug]

It is a journey and you will need to let yourself enjoy finding your hammock. So many variables. Type of fabric really affects comfort.
I'll offer these videos for perusal. Enjoy the hammock quest..and be patient. In time good long sleep in the woods will be yours.
Shug

[Tikker]

as someone who owns hammocks with zippers on both sides, and only 1 side, make sure you get a bugnet with zippers on both sides, heh

[Salt]

I went down a similar path and while I'll likely get a SLD at some point in the future, I landed on trying a more affordable hammock with basically all of the features I wanted as an intermediate upgrade: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1050828...ug-net-11-foot

RE: while there seem to be lots of folks in the PNW who hammock, I haven't actually seen a group hang arranged...

[MrCrumbles]

Thank you gentlemen for your effort so far (any gentleladies I missed?) Many a wise thought.

Below I will respond (ish) to your thoughts in a non-logical order, hopefully you can find more to comment on.

Not going full UL. Comfort is key, if not for anything else then optimizing chances that I: can, enjoy and stay hanging. That said, weight is a factor; if having more than one choice of ~equal comfyness I will go with the lightest. But I imagine there is a tipping point where comfort drops hard and I want to stay on the right side of that. Now, a 12' wide hammock is probably quite comfy, but what is the drop to 11'? maybe even 10' wide with enough fabric gained on the width. But then again, will that end up with more weight compared to a regular 11'? (It's only examples, but you catch my drift)

A big factor for weight is fabric. I have this idea that a more sturdy fabric is more forgiving and as I will probably have absolutely no hands on experience with a proper camping hammock (slouching-in-the-park-hammock doesn't count!) at my first rig it is good with a margin for error. I may oversee that I have a 'snagger' on my clothes when lying, I slip when getting in/out, I wiggle a tad rough being frustrated finding my sweet spot, whathaveyou. No see-through fabric for me, meeting the weight class and having a margin for mishaps is my approach.

I am a great fan of freedom. I try go squeeze in degrees of it wherever I can but it is of course also a trade off. Par example I need a net on my hammock as I am sleeping with mosquitos, gnats, noseeums and monsters - degrees lost. I will get a net w zippers on both sides for convenience and the net, like the hammock, should be symmetrical so I have ample opportunity to find my sweet spot even if it means tossing and turning - degrees earned.

No double layer. Where I hang (around) it's not too warm so UQ is a no brainer and with the risk of fudging the pad and double layers not meaning a thing to monsters it is a big no-no on that one.

Wind/ter cover: Will I run off in the snow at my first hang? No. Will I want the cover? Yes. Providing (partial) wind protection the cover can give me the choice skipping the tarp at occasions par example - weight gained but degrees earned.

Overarching guide lines for my hammock research has been simplicity, versatility, high customability (yes, it just became a word) and a modular approach. Chameleon and Trail lair tick alot of these boxes, not necessarily the same boxes, but one or the other is an OK option from that perspective. Now, comfort, that is a different story, all the theoretical pros-and-consing regarding features (bugs?) is something I probably will hit off quite a few winners on and significantly lower the variables to consider when buying the next hammock (yes, I have just decided that I will like hangin' and that all be wonderful) But I better absorb all the ideas out there on the forum to get some kind of idea of the sleeping comfort.

I can, and will, pester the vendors about making the choice but first I want to pick all them brains of yours and ponder all the thoughts and ideas I can before I chat with the vendor. They have good ideas, no doubt, but here they come in masses and out of the box at occasions. You are legion, vendors are not.

So, I am 6'1" and SLD recommends 12' for over 6'6" so that's way above my weight (well, you get it). SLD recommends 11' feet up to 6'6" - yay! Gained 5"! SLD recommends 10' for 5'10" - doh! 3" lost. But wait, the standard width is 56-59" and wide goes up to 70", will it actually be more comfy w 10' wide than 11' regular? But will the weight increase even If I take a shorter but wider hammock? And *poof!* there my brain explodes.

On top of that Shug just wrote "Type of fabric really affects comfort" without saying a word about what kind of fabrics do magic with comfort - Gaaah! *poof!* (Brain explosion II) Jesters aside, I appreciate your opinion and have seen a bunch of your videos and eagerly await your (and every one else's) thoughts on which cloth feels better than the other except for the stretch issue with nylon and polyester and uhmwpe and whatnot.

Now I need to pick up the pieces of my thinking machine. Catch youse on the flip side.

[Shug]

Thank you gentlemen for your effort so far (any gentleladies I missed?) Many a wise thought.

Below I will respond (ish) to your thoughts in a non-logical order, hopefully you can find more to comment on.

Not going full UL. Comfort is key, if not for anything else then optimizing chances that I: can, enjoy and stay hanging. That said, weight is a factor; if having more than one choice of ~equal comfyness I will go with the lightest. But I imagine there is a tipping point where comfort drops hard and I want to stay on the right side of that. Now, a 12' wide hammock is probably quite comfy, but what is the drop to 11'? maybe even 10' wide with enough fabric gained on the width. But then again, will that end up with more weight compared to a regular 11'? (It's only examples, but you catch my drift)

A big factor for weight is fabric. I have this idea that a more sturdy fabric is more forgiving and as I will probably have absolutely no hands on experience with a proper camping hammock (slouching-in-the-park-hammock doesn't count!) at my first rig it is good with a margin for error. I may oversee that I have a 'snagger' on my clothes when lying, I slip when getting in/out, I wiggle a tad rough being frustrated finding my sweet spot, whathaveyou. No see-through fabric for me, meeting the weight class and having a margin for mishaps is my approach.

I am a great fan of freedom. I try go squeeze in degrees of it wherever I can but it is of course also a trade off. Par example I need a net on my hammock as I am sleeping with mosquitos, gnats, noseeums and monsters - degrees lost. I will get a net w zippers on both sides for convenience and the net, like the hammock, should be symmetrical so I have ample opportunity to find my sweet spot even if it means tossing and turning - degrees earned.

No double layer. Where I hang (around) it's not too warm so UQ is a no brainer and with the risk of fudging the pad and double layers not meaning a thing to monsters it is a big no-no on that one.

Wind/ter cover: Will I run off in the snow at my first hang? No. Will I want the cover? Yes. Providing (partial) wind protection the cover can give me the choice skipping the tarp at occasions par example - weight gained but degrees earned.

Overarching guide lines for my hammock research has been simplicity, versatility, high customability (yes, it just became a word) and a modular approach. Chameleon and Trail lair tick alot of these boxes, not necessarily the same boxes, but one or the other is an OK option from that perspective. Now, comfort, that is a different story, all the theoretical pros-and-consing regarding features (bugs?) is something I probably will hit off quite a few winners on and significantly lower the variables to consider when buying the next hammock (yes, I have just decided that I will like hangin' and that all be wonderful) But I better absorb all the ideas out there on the forum to get some kind of idea of the sleeping comfort.

I can, and will, pester the vendors about making the choice but first I want to pick all them brains of yours and ponder all the thoughts and ideas I can before I chat with the vendor. They have good ideas, no doubt, but here they come in masses and out of the box at occasions. You are legion, vendors are not.

So, I am 6'1" and SLD recommends 12' for over 6'6" so that's way above my weight (well, you get it). SLD recommends 11' feet up to 6'6" - yay! Gained 5"! SLD recommends 10' for 5'10" - doh! 3" lost. But wait, the standard width is 56-59" and wide goes up to 70", will it actually be more comfy w 10' wide than 11' regular? But will the weight increase even If I take a shorter but wider hammock? And *poof!* there my brain explodes.

On top of that Shug just wrote "Type of fabric really affects comfort" without saying a word about what kind of fabrics do magic with comfort - Gaaah! *poof!* (Brain explosion II) Jesters aside, I appreciate your opinion and have seen a bunch of your videos and eagerly await your (and every one else's) thoughts on which cloth feels better than the other except for the stretch issue with nylon and polyester and uhmwpe and whatnot.

Now I need to pick up the pieces of my thinking machine. Catch youse on the flip side.

Well some folks like wearing denim and some linen and some polyester. Same applies to hammocks. So we all vary in fabric choices. I'll add a video I did on Fabrics to add to your research.
Hexon...very comfortable to me.
Ripstop just fine for me.
Lookaround and read descriptions on Ripstop by the Roll....https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/hammock-fabric

This quest of yours will take patience and research and thought. Sorry...wish I could tell you it would be easier. It is not.

[Canadark]

I have both the Trail Lair and Chameleon hammocks. I can't tell the difference in comfort or quality. They are both symmetrical. At your weight, you'd save a few ounces by getting either one in Hexon 1.2 fabric, which is soft and has a slight amount of "give" to it. Not stretchy, nor delicate. Weight rating is 275 lbs and it doesn't come in a wide version, so no further thought required as to a custom width. You'll end up with an 11' hammock about 58" wide which is plenty of hammock for many many people.

Top cover -- optional with the Chameleon at additional cost over the bugnet. With the Trail Lair, Jared on request can make the hammock top cover-compatible from the get-go. His top cover ("Wind Shield") zips to an extra zipper track on the non-removable bugnet. If you like the Trail Lair and want to add the Wind Shield later, your hammock will be ready for it.

I really like the Wind Shield as it is infinitely adjustable as to how much coverage it gives you and can be adjusted from inside the hammock as you lay in it. The Chameleon "Moonlight" top cover also gives you some adjustablility from inside the hammock but it's spendy.

And honestly both of these hammocks and their accessories are premium offerings. So just pull the trigger! You're in Seattle...get a Trail Lair with zipper track for a Wind Shield and Jared will have it in your hands promptly from his location in northern Idaho. Get a feel for it and learn from actual In Real Life experience what your like and dislikes are.

It's a fun hobby.