Kevlar ... Where are you??

[cougarmeat]

> - to wrap up, they also seem pointless (so even more niche), now that dyneema is about as affordable, stronger, and so resistant to uv it can replace steel standing rigging on sailboats (and is said to be more durable even).

Now you've given me a reason to live another 20 years Have you ever been to a Marina at night? Imagine sleeping on a sailboat is one of serene quiet, maybe just water lapping on the hull, gentle rocking - sort of like a hammock on water. But NO! All that metal rigging is clanging away; you'd think you were in a machine shop. If it were replaced with Dyneema line, then you would have the tranquility (or closer to it) that you imagined.

It makes sense. Jeep owners with winches that use metal cable are replacing the cable with Dyneema. It's lighter, just as strong, and safer if it does snap. The only concern is those sailboat steel cables last years and years and years exposed to the elements (UV and Salt) every day. I don't know if Dyneema has that "long term" track record.

[PopcornFool]

At one time my job consisted of tracking down Mil Spec components for Bid Specifications.

https://www.ballyribbon.com/mil-spec/kevlar-webbing

Baily Ribbon has the following 1" Kevlar Webbing weighing in at 3.4 grams per foot (0.36 oz/yd = 0.12 oz/foot) and (0.12 oz x 28.3495 grams/oz = 3.40)

BRM Pattern 2859
MIL-T-87130
Type 6 Class 6a

Attachment 191005

Thanks for the tip! I'll look up these folks and see what they say about B2C sales.

[PopcornFool]

... aramid fibers are technology patented somewhere near alfa centauri, and we apparently haven't paid for the intelectual rights ...

I just KNEW it had to be either either a financial, political, or dystopian thing! It didn't cross my mind that maybe is would be a space alien financial, political, dystopian thing!

- to wrap up, they also seem pointless (so even more niche), now that dyneema is about as affordable, stronger, and so resistant to uv it can replace steel standing rigging on sailboats (and is said to be more durable even) ...

One could argue that LED light bulbs are now just about affordable as incandescent light bulbs, stronger, and more durable even and therefore incandescent bulbs seem pointless (or niche). But niche is not a bad thing, and for me, incandescent simply works better than LED for specific situations. I'd like the option of buying incandescent if I want. The only reason I can't is simple Orwellian mandate. There's not even an option for niche (only for special purpose).

... i know it might be quite far from what some would like to hear, but perhaps it makes sense to consider other options

I already use several other suspension options including different sets of Dyneema and Dyneema hybrid straps. But just like my experience with LED bulbs, there are some things I really don't like about them and I'd like to try Kevlar. The strength of this community has always been the foundational principles of experimentation, contribution, and dialog. Reducing options limits experimentation and therefore is always a bad thing IMO.


I sometimes wonder if the lack of Kevlar options really is an Orwellian thing (or Alpha Centaurian thing - lol). It can't be due to obsolescence resulting from the advent of "better" dyneema straps. Many would assert that corded phones, camera film, and pagers are all obsolete too, but I can still buy them brand new if I want. (New and improved, even.) Nope ... there's got to be another reason.

[joe_guilbeau]

@PopcornFool - Well it seems as though you've got a hankering for the Aramid, so here is a teaser for you...


Thomas Net
https://www.thomasnet.com/products/k...7290261-1.html

Listing within Thomas.Net
CS Hyde Company Lake Village
https://www.thomasnet.com/profile/10...174%3B+Fabrics

CS Hyde Company Full Catalog Kevlar® Aramid Fabric
https://www.thomasnet.com/catalogs/i...aramid-fabric/
Buy 100 feet and it is $0.85 per foot... got fiberglass in it though!

[PopcornFool]

Thanks again, Joe!! I'll check out CS Hyde as well!
It's a pretty good price too, assuming they'll sell me a quantity of one (1).

I wonder what the strength is. I can't get to the spec sheet without registering. (another one of my personal soapbox nitpicks. )
I suppose I can ask when I request a quote.

[TominMN]

The bottom-line question for me is: What does Kevlar offer that isn't available in another material?

[joe_guilbeau]

The bottom-line question for me is: What does Kevlar offer that isn't available in another material?

From Dutchware: Kevlar Straps and Huggers
https://dutchwaregear.com/2021/12/22...ely%20stretch.

"One of the strongest materials used to create hammock straps is Kevlar. DutchWare carries Kevlar 3.3 Straps and Kevlar 3.3 Huggers. The material is lightweight and strong enough to resist tough abrasions and heat. The webbing can withstand temperatures up to 800 degrees Fahrenheit before the straps start to decompose and perform in temperatures as low as -320 degrees Fahrenheit.

Kevlar straps and tree huggers are great for outdoor hammocking because they don’t absorb too much water and barely stretch. Kevlar is particularly susceptible in high UV areas because they degrade extremely fast. If you like using your hammock in sunny, warm areas, Kevlar will be your best bet for hammock straps." I suppose you could spritz them with 303 Protectant, or just store them in a plastic bin of the liquid, right?

Says it all, eh? I am a firm believer in form following function, don't much care for ultralight myself because I either paddle or drive to put up 50 lb stands. The Tripod headers are 13-lbs each and nine aluminum mast sections weigh 20-lbs. I suppose I could have used overhand knots in the Kevlar to the Iron Eyebolts, but that would be overkill.
IMG_1583.jpg

[TominMN]

From Dutchware: Kevlar Straps and Huggers
https://dutchwaregear.com/2021/12/22...ely%20stretch.

"One of the strongest materials used to create hammock straps is Kevlar. DutchWare carries Kevlar 3.3 Straps and Kevlar 3.3 Huggers. The material is lightweight and strong enough to resist tough abrasions and heat. The webbing can withstand temperatures up to 800 degrees Fahrenheit before the straps start to decompose and perform in temperatures as low as -320 degrees Fahrenheit."

I suppose one might need that in Death Valley or at the South Pole.

Kevlar straps and tree huggers are great for outdoor hammocking because they don’t absorb too much water and barely stretch. Kevlar is particularly susceptible in high UV areas because they degrade extremely fast. If you like using your hammock in sunny, warm areas, Kevlar will be your best bet for hammock straps."

I think maybe it was intended to be "will not be your best bet" (?)

Anyway, it may well be there was nothing else with the strength to weight ratio like Kevlar when Dutch wrote this years ago. Not enough "pluses" to outweigh the "minuses" today as far as I'm concerned.

[cmoulder]

The bottom-line question for me is: What does Kevlar offer that isn't available in another material?

Very close to zero stretch is the biggie for me, along with holding knots well and releasing easily. Mine have also been the most durable of any material I've tried. UV isn't a problem... pitch late in the day, under trees, wrap up early morning.

My second choice is the Myers poly/dyneema hybrid. Nothing wrong with straight poly, and while it is definitely not as stretchy as nylon it is very elastic compared to Kevlar and quite noticeable when trees are far apart.

However, if it was the only material available I'd learn to compensate for the stretch and not worry about it too much. As with poly and nylon tarps, it can only stretch so far!

[DrPhun]

I remember there was litigation that humidity degraded bulletproof vests.


I found a technical manual on Kevlar from the manufacturer: https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/d...Guide_0319.pdf