Adjustable whipping method?

[stevebo]

So, I was experimenting with whipping methods. I really like the warbonnet method. (So strong and simple- looks great!). But....... it doesn't really lend it self to adjustability/ modification. I tried using a more traditional whipping method, very adjustable but not as neat as the warbonnet whip. So, my question is, ......is there a hybrid whipping method that combines the ease , strength and simplicity of the warbonnet whip while also adding the adjustability of the traditional whipping ?

[TominMN]

If I'm understanding what you mean by "traditional" whipping, I can't imagine any hybrid that would be "simple" to adjust. To work the way I imagine you desire, the whipping needs to be pulled extremely tight. That takes away "simple" IMHO. Otherwise, I see the hammock fabric slipping through any alternate whipping method. Yes, whipping allows for do-overs but un-doing and re-doing the whipping doesn't happen in a couple of minutes. The Warbonnet method, as you said, doesn't lend itself to any adjustment. I wouldn't even call it whipping.

[stevebo]

Excellent point- thx!

[nanok]

actually..

when i started experimenting with hammocks, i wanted the same thing, i quickly decided i don't like sewn channels, and i skipped the wipping altogether due to what you described.

what i concluded might be surprising, it's almost offtopic: ditch the wipping, the sheet bend was designed exactly for that. all my diy hammocks use it (usually with an extra wrap, but you decide for yourself if it is needed). what i do these days is i make a dyneema softshackle that a bit longer, and bend the hammock to it with a sheet bend, now i have an integrated softshackle there for versatility, and the sheet bend together with a dyneema softshackle means you can always undo it for washing, readjusting, etc, it sometimes requires patience at first, but just remember dyneema is slippery and static, so even if the bend looks rock tight, once you get the dyneema in it to move, you're almost done, and it will move.

experiment carefully at first, and some hints to keep in mind:

- if you will use the softshackle as a single stranded part of the sheet bend, keep in mind that once the shackle is closed (which will be your load bearing configuration), this is not a sheet bend anymore, it is a becket hitch, and the "ring" in the hitch is the softshackle, so a bit counterintuitively, the dyneema is the "U" in the knot, and the hammock fabric is the "X", if you do it the other way around, the hammock fabric will slide out of the knot when loaded.

- if you use the shackle doubled up, and make a proper sheet bend with the two strands of the shackle on one side, and the hammock fabric on the other, then the opposite is true, the hammock should make the U, but then you really need to take a second turn with the softshackle imo. (i prefer this option, i find it neater, and i feel it distributes the load nicer on the fabric, but i have no data to confirm that, it might be wrong)

- if you use the option above (double stranded softshackle in the sheet bend), you might be tempted to connect the other end of the softshackle together with the head, it feels more secure (as otherwise it's hanging out). this is a trap, that end needs to be unloaded, otherwise you "almost" made a becket hitch, except the roles should be reversed (see warning from first option), so don't do this "security mod", the hammock fabric will slide out if you do

hope it makes sense and helps

[stevebo]

actually..

when i started experimenting with hammocks, i wanted the same thing, i quickly decided i don't like sewn channels, and i skipped the wipping altogether due to what you described.

what i concluded might be surprising, it's almost offtopic: ditch the wipping, the sheet bend was designed exactly for that. all my diy hammocks use it (usually with an extra wrap, but you decide for yourself if it is needed). what i do these days is i make a dyneema softshackle that a bit longer, and bend the hammock to it with a sheet bend, now i have an integrated softshackle there for versatility, and the sheet bend together with a dyneema softshackle means you can always undo it for washing, readjusting, etc, it sometimes requires patience at first, but just remember dyneema is slippery and static, so even if the bend looks rock tight, once you get the dyneema in it to move, you're almost done, and it will move.

experiment carefully at first, and some hints to keep in mind:

- if you will use the softshackle as a single stranded part of the sheet bend, keep in mind that once the shackle is closed (which will be your load bearing configuration), this is not a sheet bend anymore, it is a becket hitch, and the "ring" in the hitch is the softshackle, so a bit counterintuitively, the dyneema is the "U" in the knot, and the hammock fabric is the "X", if you do it the other way around, the hammock fabric will slide out of the knot when loaded.

- if you use the shackle doubled up, and make a proper sheet bend with the two strands of the shackle on one side, and the hammock fabric on the other, then the opposite is true, the hammock should make the U, but then you really need to take a second turn with the softshackle imo. (i prefer this option, i find it neater, and i feel it distributes the load nicer on the fabric, but i have no data to confirm that, it might be wrong)

- if you use the option above (double stranded softshackle in the sheet bend), you might be tempted to connect the other end of the softshackle together with the head, it feels more secure (as otherwise it's hanging out). this is a trap, that end needs to be unloaded, otherwise you made a becket hitch, and the roles should be reversed (see warning from first option), so don't do this "security mod", the hammock fabric will slide out if you do

hope it makes sense and helps

Thanks for the advice! Sounds like a good solution! So if I am understanding your description correctly, you gather or fold the hammock end , and instead of whipping it, use a sheet bend to secure the suspension. One question- do you prefer a becket hitch, or a sheetbend? (And what are the pros and cons of both?). Thx!

[nanok]

not exactly: i gather the hammock end, fold it, and then use a softshackle and the end of the hammock to make a sheet bend or a becket hitch; so i don't attach the suspension directly to the hammock, but via the softshackle, which makes the whole thing more modular (i can mix and match and experiment with different hammocks and suspension and so on in a matter of seconds). depending on how the softshackle is configured (see above), you get a sheet bend or a becket hitch, the two share the same topology, but are different knots with different peculiarities to keep in mind. the difference between them is that the becket has one ring on one end (in other words, both strands of the U part in the becket are loaded, whereas in the sheet bend only one is). this means the sheet bend is asymmetrical on all axis basically, so one needs to be careful with it (most notably: the tails of the sheet bend must both exit on the same side, and the stiffer rope (usually the bigger diameter rope, or the "sail sheet" -- the folded fabric) must be the one making the "U". it is also important to understand, as explained above, that if you load the tail of the "x" in the sheet bend, you don't get a becket hitch, but something which simply doesn't work (will slide out), this is why the simple bowline got its horrible reputation in climbing, because we didn't yet understand this "detail" (the bowline shares its topology with the sheet bend and becket hitch, it's their loop version you might say)

digression aside: i prefer a sheet bend with an extra wrap (so longer softshackle needed), i offset the softshackle so that the button knot part is shorter than the noose part, this is not required, but it is nice: it means if i want to put it through a very small eye, like my ucrs often have to save space, i don't need to pass the button knot through the eye, and once the shackle closed, the button knot will not interfere with anything. i also attach the ridgeline there, so basically every component is modular and quick to swap around (but i guess most people don't care about that feature)

[stevebo]

not exactly: i gather the hammock end, fold it, and then use a softshackle and the end of the hammock to make a sheet bend or a becket hitch; so i don't attach the suspension directly to the hammock, but via the softshackle, which makes the whole thing more modular (i can mix and match and experiment with different hammocks and suspension and so on in a matter of seconds). depending on how the softshackle is configured (see above), you get a sheet bend or a becket hitch, the two share the same topology, but are different knots with different peculiarities to keep in mind. the difference between them is that the becket has one ring on one end (in other words, both strands of the U part in the becket are loaded, whereas in the sheet bend only one is). this means the sheet bend is asymmetrical on all axis basically, so one needs to be careful with it (most notably: the tails of the sheet bend must both exit on the same side, and the stiffer rope (usually the bigger diameter rope, or the "sail sheet" -- the folded fabric) must be the one making the "U". it is also important to understand, as explained above, that if you load the tail of the "x" in the sheet bend, you don't get a becket hitch, but something which simply doesn't work (will slide out), this is why the simple bowline got its horrible reputation in climbing, because we didn't yet understand this "detail" (the bowline shares its topology with the sheet bend and becket hitch, it's their loop version you might say)

digression aside: i prefer a sheet bend with an extra wrap (so longer softshackle needed), i offset the softshackle so that the button knot part is shorter than the noose part, this is not required, but it is nice: it means if i want to put it through a very small eye, like my ucrs often have to save space, i don't need to pass the button knot through the eye, and once the shackle closed, the button knot will not interfere with anything. i also attach the ridgeline there, so basically every component is modular and quick to swap around (but i guess most people don't care about that feature)

any chance you could post a picture or two?

[G-Rat]

You could try this method. I used it with success some time back when experimenting, but didn't use it long-term.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJlEQpcbM1I

[nanok]

yeah, it's something like that i'm suggesting, except using a softshackle for the "rope" half. However, that modification to the sheet bend which is shown in the video is very questionable, when working with "normal" rope and "normal" fabric (so not very lightweight/slippery fabric, and not dyneema rope), it is mostly irrelevant, because that modification to the knot will do nothing (the tail will not be loaded), i'd still avoid it though, to remove the temptation of loading it, clipping something to it, etc. I've plaid with this too, it's tempting for how neat it looks, but i would advise caution.

i think the safest way to do it is to use the softshackle as a ring, so with the fabric of the hammock forming the X in the knot, and the closed shackle the U, this results in the fabric sticking to one side of the knot, so it is a bit wonky, doesn't look so neat, but i think it is by far the most bullet proof configuration from what i've seen so far (it is secure and stable, and as the shackle side is symmetrical -- this being effectively a becket hitch -- there's no need to worry about which side the tail exits on, so a lot less error prone; there's also nothing tempting sticking out that somebody might think to clip stuff to)

remember dyneema is very slippery, i find however slippery i think it is, it still on occasion surprises me by being even more slippery (my theory is that it's not me, it's just dyneema which gets gradually more slippery as you look at it or, for that matter, think of it)