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  1. #11
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    I had a shock cord break on time during a bad blow with rain comming off the lake I was camping beside. Good thing that it was spring and not too cold and that the car was nearby, because everything got completely soaked.

    I don't like the idea of shock cord too much, but in looking at dyneema tarps at Hammock gear - they highly recomend using it at each tie out to prevent long term stress damage.

    To quote their page:
    "Dyneema® composite has zero stretch to eliminate sagging when wet. Because of this quality, we also highly recommend adding shock cord loops to all tie-put points for added protection from damage in high-winds. It is equally important to not overtighten tie-out point as this can compromise the material over time."

  2. #12
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    Pavel - what if you had backed up that shock cord with another line? My guylines have about 8 inches of shock cord that I figure can stretch to a max of 16 inches. So I take an arbitrary 80% of that - say 13 inches and using a fixed line (AmSteel or Night-eze), limit the stretch to that length. If the shock cord breaks, the tarp is still held in place by the fixed line.

    One day, when I've had enough motivational coffee, I'll play with that "bungee inside the Amsteel" technique Dutch shows in a YouTube video. It seems a very clean solution to give a stretch potential while insuring against a "break" disaster.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cougarmeat View Post
    Pavel - what if you had backed up that shock cord with another line? My guylines have about 8 inches of shock cord that I figure can stretch to a max of 16 inches. So I take an arbitrary 80% of that - say 13 inches and using a fixed line (AmSteel or Night-eze), limit the stretch to that length. If the shock cord breaks, the tarp is still held in place by the fixed line.

    One day, when I've had enough motivational coffee, I'll play with that "bungee inside the Amsteel" technique Dutch shows in a YouTube video. It seems a very clean solution to give a stretch potential while insuring against a "break" disaster.
    I suspect, had I done that - that I'd have been nice and dry - but minus one well imprinted lesson.

  4. #14
    Senior Member cmoulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavel View Post
    I had a shock cord break on time during a bad blow with rain comming off the lake I was camping beside. Good thing that it was spring and not too cold and that the car was nearby, because everything got completely soaked.

    I don't like the idea of shock cord too much, but in looking at dyneema tarps at Hammock gear - they highly recomend using it at each tie out to prevent long term stress damage.

    To quote their page:
    "Dyneema® composite has zero stretch to eliminate sagging when wet. Because of this quality, we also highly recommend adding shock cord loops to all tie-put points for added protection from damage in high-winds. It is equally important to not overtighten tie-out point as this can compromise the material over time."
    In my experience, the whole rationale behind using shock cord is to mitigate many folks' tendency to pitch tarps "spang" tight, as Phantom Grappler calls it. Which is, I infer, tighter than a crab's sphincter. This causes delaminating and debonding in the corners. But someone could, presumably, stretch the shock cord to its limits and end up spang tight anyway.

    It's especially important to use a continuous ridge line and NOT a split ridge line, which puts a ton of stress on those points. Far better to use a spang tight CRL and suspend the tarp under it with Prusiks or Nama Claws.

    I don't use shock cord on any of the points but I make sure to use a CRL and to snug those corners "just so" and no more... more doesn't help anyway.
    Last edited by cmoulder; 05-26-2023 at 16:07.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
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  5. #15
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    I don't so much disagree, slightly, with cmoulder, as I come at it from a different angle. I absolutely agree that one should not strive to pitch to the Spang level. And congratulations, Pavel for recognizing the value of one painful but survivable lesson over no lesson learned and the event appearing in a more critical situation. Someday I'll tell you how I learned not to be interrupted while putting food/supplies in the kayak.

    Back to the shock cord - two good reasons for using it on the guylines (not necessarily on the ridgeline - especially not there if it were not backed up there with a fixed line), is for those of us using SilNylon tarps that tend to stretch when wet. The bungee cord mitigates the resulting sloppy pitch. The second reason is to allow a little deformity when confronted with a strong wind gust. If the tarp can "bend" a little, it will spill some of that wind, resulting in less force against the stakes and tarp material.

    If your pitch doesn't allow for the best water drainage, you can develop a "swimming pool" - especially in porch mode - and that can be surprising if the wind dumps it on your shoes at the foot of your hammock. For that reason, I usually only deploy one pole in porch mode to better control the rainwater run-off direction. A shock cord on a corner may act as a safety valve. When the water builds up heavy enough, the cord stretches enough to change the shape of the side wall and spill the water - where you want it.

    So shock cord or not - up to you. If I were in Seattle, absolutely I'd use them. If I were LowTech's neighbor in Arizona, probably not.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  6. #16
    LowTech's Avatar
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    Cougarmeat might not use them here but I sure do! In fact I use a heavier gauge shock cord than most would. Why? Heavy winds. Not only do we get strong winds (over 15mph) more often than not, and some gusts as high as 40mph+, but it's pretty normal to have really strong winds right before it starts raining. Like the elements are checking to see if they can rip your tarp away before dumping cold rain on you.
    I feel that shock cord has played a big part in the fact that my tarp isn't shredded.
    I do need to try the shock cord tied inline (since I don't use spliceable guylines) for a no-fail backup.

    "Sent w/o me knowing"

  7. #17
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    There is a lot of really valuable experience being put into the Hammock bible, that this site is. I, so far, plan to change my approach as far as hanging the ridge-line below the tarp, as I though was right with my Warbonnet and Simply-light designs. The one time I tried the ridge line above, during a moderate side blow wind, I had the tarp drop down a few inches as my prussics' slid towards each other. I blamed that on my "dumb" experiment, but now know that it was the zing it on zing it, with too few turns. I plan to continue my using zing it on my ridgelines, but want to ask others if using my 2mm glowwire for prussics' would likely hold better? Or vice versa, if there is any great advantage that way?

    Now back to the Dyneema tarps. My early experience with a dyneema tarp was not my own, but rather proxy through another forum member (graham) and long distance cyclist. He had his Dyneema tarp for several months of daily use. We shared a few days of riding together and while he was very fond of the lightness of the tarp, he had developed the delamination problem mentioned by cmoulder. But it was in an odd place, not along any stress point but rather in the middle of the tarp about 1/3 way in from one edge. He was a higly experienced traveler, though of course that does not eliminate all possibility of user error. He, if I remember right did not use any shock cord, but did not stretch his tarp out tight. I wonder if it was more likely to have been a manufacturing error, or a stick or large pincone in the middle of the night? Has dyneema evolved over the years - or is it the same manufacturing and materials as always?

    My own temperamental outlook is to keep all as simple as possible. I'll fuss and fuss, so that I get a setup where I never have to fuss in the field. And I guess that for ultra light people, every add on, including shock cord, may be undesirable? But simplicity has a beauty in and of itself. I even like the use of two side panel pullouts versus the normal four is appealing. As a last question, is a catenary cut desirable on a dyneema tarp, so that a less than "crab's sphincter" tight setup does not flap around?

  8. #18
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    LowTech

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQCqE4HiL40

    That's Jeff's commentary on internal vs external tensioners and his external method. I'm woo's by the pretty result of the internal tensioner, but Jeff mentions several practical reasons for keeping it extneral - including the ability to use 1/8th shock cord (the internal cord examples use much smaller cord) for those high Arizona winds.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  9. #19
    Countrybois's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavel View Post
    There is a lot of really valuable experience being put into the Hammock bible, that this site is. I, so far, plan to change my approach as far as hanging the ridge-line below the tarp, as I though was right with my Warbonnet and Simply-light designs. The one time I tried the ridge line above, during a moderate side blow wind, I had the tarp drop down a few inches as my prussics' slid towards each other. I blamed that on my "dumb" experiment, but now know that it was the zing it on zing it, with too few turns. I plan to continue my using zing it on my ridgelines, but want to ask others if using my 2mm glowwire for prussics' would likely hold better? Or vice versa, if there is any great advantage that way?
    Prussic knots hold better using a smaller diameter line for the prussic or more wraps.

    BUT, a better option is using NAMA Claws in place of the prussics. Admittedly, I am a little biased, but they hold better and adjust easier.


    Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Countrybois View Post
    Prussic knots hold better using a smaller diameter line for the prussic or more wraps.

    BUT, a better option is using NAMA Claws in place of the prussics. Admittedly, I am a little biased, but they hold better and adjust easier.


    Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
    i just took a look at the NAMA claws. Very nice and very reasonably priced. I take it that they only work with the 1.75 zing it or lash it, but not with the reflective NAMA line? The size is very close.

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