Making a short GE hammock feel longer?

[nanok]

https://www.highwayhammocks.com/

Might offer you some ideas as far as a bridge style?

hmm. that's rather interesting, thanks for the link. though i wouldn't say that's a hammock (not even bridge), it gives some ideas.

anyway, to the important stuff. can i ask about truck driving and the, ahem, typical profile, over there where you are. (asking for a friend, sort of thing) :P

i'll be checking here seldom, will be busy shopping for cross atlantic tickets. i guess they call it the promise land for a reason.

[raftingtigger]

hey there,

i did work on the same concept in my head, and i think i solved it, but never got around to actually testing it. if my simulation engine is right, then you're really close to it too. my initial intent was to be able to hang sideways inside a van (instead of length wise), to save some space, but it can be addapted to other uses too.

i don't have pics, but you're the raftingtigger, so i'll just try to talk you through, you'll probably get it easily.

the hammock length is some significant percentage unused for sleeping, often more than 20% i'd say, a lot of the length is needed to provide a shallow angle to the fabric spread, this is what makes the hammock "feel long" (and is also why extra width doesn't hep). so then it means that the parts of the hammock which we don't lie on, at each attachement point, don't have to be inline with the "bed of the hammock", they just need to be allowed to spread freely. therefore, one could bend the hammock at those points, around an object which is wide enough to support the width that far from the anchor point, and thus move the gathered end (and final anchor) towards the ground. in other words, the hammock will look more like an "M" while in use, than like a "V". so you could think of it as basically folding a longer hammock, to make it take less space, the trick is to fold it _without_ gathering the fabric at the turning points (so the gathered ends remain the "convergence points)

the only problem i see with this is that the hammock fabric, when loaded, takes a rather "half pipe" like shape, rather than a flat one, so if these turn points are flat (which would be the easiest to achieve), then the hammock might feel "a bit different" that way. i doubt the difference would be big, and i think a carefully matched loose sling, or slightly curved bar, would likely easily fix that (see below)

the horizontal "turn points" on each end obviously need to be strong enough, and wide enough. they could be made in several ways: a metal bar that's slightly bent for instance, anchored at both ends (in front, it could be using both driver and passenger handle bolts, for instance), or it could be a long piece of dyneema loosely hung between to sturdy attachement points. this means you'd need an additional strong attachement point on the floor, but in most vehicles that should be easy to find, and its location won't be that critical. the advantage of this approach is that you can use any hammock you like, unmodified, and even switch between using it in-vehicle and on the trees without much hassle. with a bit of imagination, one could also use this idea to make a short hammock (shorter length of fabric) behave like a longer one, but my conclusion so far was that it is just simpler and more versatile to have a system to just use a nice long hammock, and otoh, good quality fabric these days is cheap and light for its strength, so it's not worth it for the "fabric economy" either, but perhaps you might find there's reasons to develop that further.

hope it helps, do let us know if you try it, i've been meaning to for years, and never got around to it somehow. i'd be really curious what you find.

I'm really having trouble visualizing this, and that is my problem. I think I see where you are going, and I have had similar thoughts, but executing those thoughts is where I'm stuck. If you can sketch it out...

What I envision is some sort of curved bar at each end of the hammock that mimics the configuration of said hammock if suspended full length and the hanger is inside the hammock. The drawback is that is likely to be individualized. I've been struggling with the concept in my head for years and haven't come up with a good solution yet. In the current case, just switching my lay direction solved the problem. This really surprised me, as I though this would make it worse.

[raftingtigger]

https://www.highwayhammocks.com/

Might offer you some ideas as far as a bridge style?

Won't work for me, as the width of my vehicle isn't wide enough. There is the issue of water seepage in a rainstorm - anything sticking out the windows draws water through the fabric. Been there, done that. Doesn't look very comfortable for me either. Good luck with your products.

FWIW, while it looks like my foot suspension would channel water from the outside, it does not. I modified the weatherproofing and the amsteel goes UNDER the seal and through a channel I created. I even made a loop of amsteel with aquaseal embedded so water wouldn't go through the line, but that ended up being unnecessary and I never install that loop.

[Just Bill]

Cheryl-

Basically- I initially got into bridge hammocks to solve the problem of making a short gathered end feel longer or essentially to create a flat spot that worked without fuss.

Somewhere in one of Grizz's videos (make the history of bridge hammocks) he did a 'bridge without spreader bars' using stakes to pull it out. Long story short there- tension is harder to achieve than compression but likely I'm preaching to the choir on that one.

But if you think of the 'floating cot' concept rather than a bridge hammock you might find your mind wraps around things a bit better?

I could likely provide you with a modified end bar bridge pattern for your personal use that is about 6' long based on 26" or 30" spreader bars. My original micro bridge was quite small and used 26" spreaders. It basically was made to 'float' a 20" sleeping pad for airborne side sleep.

So... put the two ideas together and you would have a smaller bridge which you then could anchor via tension to your vehicle's interior.
IE- the extra length you need for the dogbones can be virtually eliminated. I would plan on using the spreader bars to assist keeping things stable, especially at the rear door hatch as those attachment point may be close enough together to need the spreader.

Put all three of the ideas together using some recessed bar techniques and the original micro bridge type pattern which has an end bar at one end and a severe recessed bar at the foot end... and it might come together well enough that you could use the two rear attachment points and one door.

The major problem I see would be getting the bridge low enough so you could easily climb in as I think you'd end up higher in the air than you might like.

Finally- if you want to scrap the idea of a bridge type:

Option 1- I have a never before shared hammock called 'Just a pad sling' I would be willing to privately share a photo of with you that might work too. Though that might put your butt in your husband's face. But it is a fully working demonstration of the 'short but feels long' gathered end. It requires a sleeping pad but that seems a non-issue here?

Option 2- Portaledge IE https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...le-portaledge/

Since you won't be sleeping at 3000' above the deck, guessing you could sew up a bed and your own deck out of tube.
Then anchor your four corners to your four anchors. The big ding (literally) would be making sure you didn't bang the frame into the rear window!
But with whoopie/UCR splicing to suspend the frame you'd have more room to play with height and location in the van.

Once you had the frame about right- you could play with the 'deck' dimensions to introduce a little more sag.

https://www.rei.com/product/158009/h...d25ec243e21127

You might even be light enough to simply use this and hang it too.

[raftingtigger]

Cheryl-

Basically- I initially got into bridge hammocks to solve the problem of making a short gathered end feel longer or essentially to create a flat spot that worked without fuss.

Somewhere in one of Grizz's videos (make the history of bridge hammocks) he did a 'bridge without spreader bars' using stakes to pull it out. Long story short there- tension is harder to achieve than compression but likely I'm preaching to the choir on that one.

But if you think of the 'floating cot' concept rather than a bridge hammock you might find your mind wraps around things a bit better?

I could likely provide you with a modified end bar bridge pattern for your personal use that is about 6' long based on 26" or 30" spreader bars. My original micro bridge was quite small and used 26" spreaders. It basically was made to 'float' a 20" sleeping pad for airborne side sleep.

So... put the two ideas together and you would have a smaller bridge which you then could anchor via tension to your vehicle's interior.
IE- the extra length you need for the dogbones can be virtually eliminated. I would plan on using the spreader bars to assist keeping things stable, especially at the rear door hatch as those attachment point may be close enough together to need the spreader.

Put all three of the ideas together using some recessed bar techniques and the original micro bridge type pattern which has an end bar at one end and a severe recessed bar at the foot end... and it might come together well enough that you could use the two rear attachment points and one door.

The major problem I see would be getting the bridge low enough so you could easily climb in as I think you'd end up higher in the air than you might like.

Finally- if you want to scrap the idea of a bridge type:

Option 1- I have a never before shared hammock called 'Just a pad sling' I would be willing to privately share a photo of with you that might work too. Though that might put your butt in your husband's face. But it is a fully working demonstration of the 'short but feels long' gathered end. It requires a sleeping pad but that seems a non-issue here?

Option 2- Portaledge IE https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...le-portaledge/

Since you won't be sleeping at 3000' above the deck, guessing you could sew up a bed and your own deck out of tube.
Then anchor your four corners to your four anchors. The big ding (literally) would be making sure you didn't bang the frame into the rear window!
But with whoopie/UCR splicing to suspend the frame you'd have more room to play with height and location in the van.

Once you had the frame about right- you could play with the 'deck' dimensions to introduce a little more sag.

https://www.rei.com/product/158009/h...d25ec243e21127

You might even be light enough to simply use this and hang it too.

I see where you are going, but the biggest issue remains is I can't sleep on a bed anymore and find bridge hammocks too much like a bed. All of the above options are too 'bed' like for my comfort.

My first minivan hammock was a bridge hammock that had 4 suspension lines. Two were toggles captured by the right and left front door frames. The other two were toggles captured by the right and left parts of the tailgate. It worked, was quite high in the vehicle, but as it turned out I can't sleep on a bridge hammock any better than I can in a bed. Also, the suspensions were prone to seeping water along the lines and into the vehicle if it rained. A bridge hammock does give much better clearance below, so I can see that as a viable option for people who can get comfortable in a bridge hammock.

Since I did solve my current issue, I'm not currently in need of a solution. I'll keep thinking about it for future use.

[Just Bill]

Best of luck with it!

If it's the extra stretch or unbedlike cradled squishyness of a gathered end you're looking for... I have built some SUL hammocks out of Membrane 10 that held my 220lb butt just fine.

Long story short- another way to get a short hammock to feel longer might be to try a lighter fabric.
I find the lighter fabrics to be too 'gathered end like' in a bridge to use but maybe it's the solution for next time.

[nanok]

I'm really having trouble visualizing this, and that is my problem. I think I see where you are going, and I have had similar thoughts, but executing those thoughts is where I'm stuck. If you can sketch it out...

What I envision is some sort of curved bar at each end of the hammock that mimics the configuration of said hammock if suspended full length and the hanger is inside the hammock. The drawback is that is likely to be individualized. I've been struggling with the concept in my head for years and haven't come up with a good solution yet. In the current case, just switching my lay direction solved the problem. This really surprised me, as I though this would make it worse.

yeah, i know, most of the stuff i come up with requires some pics or sketch to explain it better, video often works best, i think it is partly because of how much stuff has already been tested and nicely worked out by the hammock community by now (so anything really different takes a bit of a leap). this one i haven't actually tested in the lab yet, it's all in my head, but i think we understand eachother, your thought was my initial thought too, to have some hardware piece at each end of the ge hammock, the only step i suggest beyond that is to keep the "extrenous fabric" at each end of the hammock, and instead of attaching the hammock by these hardware pieces, instead achieve tension by still attaching the ends of the hammock as usual to anchor points, but use these hardware pieces as redirects. this provides more flexibility, allows the hammock to be unmodified, so any favorite ge hammock can be used like this, and for vehicle use it makes sense, because the funky stuff stays attached to the vehicle, where the funkyness is needed. you could say what i propose is to redirect the hammock ends using pulleys, but the pullies need to be very wide, wide enough to account for the hammock to keep it's "natural spread" when loaded by the relevant monkey. so, in effect, use a long hammock, and make it fit tight spaces by folding it using "makeshift pulleys" that are wide enough to not change the lay of the hammock.

yeah, i need to draw a diagram, and do some testing. i'm pretty sure it works, but testing cannot be skipped

it makes sense that changing the diagonal you lay on made a difference, in that setup, glad it worked out, and thanks for sharing your results.

ps: and thanks for all of your work on the tensa related stuff, i'm a big fan of what you guys did with it, and how, much appreciated

[offGridDownUnder]

There are several models of this concept available - getting actual dimensions may be an issue, but I'll throw this into the pot:
https://www.hammocktent.com/en/pages/products.html

The space is very constrained, so a gathered end hammock is attractive.

Another idea I have considered, but not implemented, is to use a Helinox cot with a 'suspension bridge type harness' to support it flat. The cot is supported entirely at 6 points - 3 per side, and so a harness going upward may work. Each side would have two triangles of low stretch cord (dyneema or UHMWPE) - the center leg would be the point of the two triangles heading to the head and foot, and the length from the center to the head or foot support another side of the triangle, and the diagonal from the center to a point above the head or foot support would be another side of the triangle. This would be duplicated on each side.

As a camping hammock, the four high ends of the triangles would be held apart by a spreader bar each between head triangles and foot triangles, and then suspension to hang from trees.

Think of how the Haven Tree Tent/Hammock is arranged, but replace the inflatable pad with a Helinox cot, and the supporting fabric with UHMWPE cords. The spreader bars are about the same.

How it would fit into your van and where to hang from and getting in and out is a question I can't address. You would get in and out the same as with the Haven, but instead of passing over the fabric you would be entering at the center of the cot where the cords come together at the center support of the cot.

https://helinox.com.au/products/cot-...35563709956251