Tarp too wide? Tarp ridgeline too short?

[Snow Leopard]

If there’s anything I know in the hammock world, “dry” is the most dynamic and contextual word in our vocabulary.

I was hanging at 6000 feet in the roan highlands once and although we were in a windy rain cloud for 36 hours straight, all my essentials were dry. I was using a WB mini fly and had to adjust tarp position and wall angles multiple times until finally the only thing that felt slightly wet was the outer edges of my underquilt… which was synthetic so no issues with warmth. In that situation I was as dry as could be for the gear and conditions at hand.
I still wouldn’t have said I was bone dry though!

I’ve come to figure out true bone dry doesn’t exist in intense storms at high elevations with wind due to the mist. But I’m sure I would think differently with a larger tarp than a Minifly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was curious about the Warbonnet Minifly, as well as the Thunderfly. It's good to know that you stayed relatively dry in it, despite the conditions.

It seems like we end up having more than one tarp, depending on conditions. But it's nice to have a tarp that can play "double or triple duty" in adverse weather.

"Comfortably" or "satisfactorily" dry is more like it!

[KBr00ks]

Thanks @rolloff and @SilvrSurfr. Was just curious to check out the BoneFire version of a uni-suspension. Been off this forum for a couple years (until recently) and wasn't aware the company is not in business. I recall some other cool stuff under the name.

[Derch]

Oh yeah, the tarp in question is a Dutchware Xenon WIDE winter tarp with 11 foot ridgeline. Dimensions are 11'x11.5'.
Now that I see the dimensions, it seems "wider than it is long" haha.

I have the same tarp and I've never got wet, its a nice tarp with a lot of space.

While I was laying in hammock, tarp was maybe about 8-10" above hammock ridgeline. I tried to raise hammock closer to tarp ridgeline, but I found that more challenging. I feel that a narrower tarp would be easier to lower and pitch tighter in rainy situations.

The width shouldn't effect your ability to hang it closer, if anything it gives more space to avoid splashing by having a wider base.

The tarp does in fact have doors, yes. The problem is that they do not seem to close tightly due to width of tarp. There is some floppy fabric because I cannot stretch them further to tighten the pitch and seal the doors fully. I wonder if a narrower tarp would alleviate this.

Get lines a bit longer and attach the doors to the opposite pegs that you have the sides pulled out to. That way they overlap instead of clip.

I have a poor MS paint diagram to show it, red is right door, black is left. I would only do this on the end where the wind is blowing, you shouldn't have to do both doors, that way you can leave the other end open and get some air.

Capture.PNG

Also reading this thread I noticed you had drip lines outside the tarp, this does nothing because they will just get wet. Your drop lines need to be under the tarp.

On the pole mods, I have 2 but I actually prefer one, it gives me the space but lets me tie my ends closer. In the below picture you can see the one internal pole mod but I can get my ends tighter, I didn't overlap here but I could of and brought lines all the way out. But here I will stay very dry.

20200721_075955.jpg

[BlazeyJ]

I was curious about the Warbonnet Minifly, as well as the Thunderfly. It's good to know that you stayed relatively dry in it, despite the conditions.

It seems like we end up having more than one tarp, depending on conditions. But it's nice to have a tarp that can play "double or triple duty" in adverse weather.

"Comfortably" or "satisfactorily" dry is more like it!

I have camped in all four seasons and all weather in the Blue Ridge Mountains with minifly and never really had any issues once I figured out how to properly hang and center it. Shug has some great videos comparing all of the warbonnet tarps, and I went with the Mini simply to save weight. It’s just big enough to nearly seal yourself off from the elements if needed, and I love having the smaller doors on both ends. I added shock cords on all 4 corner pullouts to prevent sag as well as line-locs for easy setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cougarmeat]

Snow Leopard, I have a MiniFly and ThunderFly. When you don't have the usual "vices", and you don't want to leave a lot "on the table" when you're gone, it is easier to buy more than one (tarp/hammock/quilt/etc.). But in my starving college student days, one would have been enough. My boots were heavier than today's packs and back then we - erroneously - prided ourselves on how much we could carry; not how light our packs were. So something like a SuperFly would have been either just right, or a little overkill, but I doubt I would have needed more.

There is a school of thought that admires/lusts after DCF tarps - and that's fine. But know there are CONS as well as PROS. UL gear isn't "just like regular gear but lighter (and more expensive)." For the same amount of money as a DCF tarp, I'd rather have two SilPoly tarps of different sizes.

I use a tarp more during the day than at night. That's because when resting during a day hike, I like a sunshade. I was using an asymmetrical tarp for that but I like the coverage of the rectangle/hex more. The minifly is just the ticket and I used it for an eight-day circumnavigation of Orcas Island a few weeks ago (see trip reports for photos). I've had it in the rain and it will keep me dry, though in a smaller footprint than a ThunderFly or larger. I use a UQP too. But if I knew it would really be a storm, or if I was winter camping and wanted the heat retention, then I'd definitely use a tarp with full doors.

[Snow Leopard]

But did the water come in on the lines or was it blown under the tarp? I put rings on the hammock's end CLs so I could swap out different suspensions (Whoopie Slings, Webbing, Daisy Chain) easily, plus provide a water break. But, as a kayaker, I don't plan outings for stormy conditions. Sure, rain can pop up. But if it's going to be a real blow, I usually know ahead of time. So far, any door design - even WB's Flys' mini-doors - have been sufficient.

I'd think, if your tarp sides were at ground level, you'd have to stake them wider if you wanted to lower the tarp closer to the hammock.

It does seem like you got in a bit of a difficult weather situation and everything performed as it should - your quilts were dry and, expectedly, just the end of the hammock that only had a 6 -8 inch overlap was a bit wet. Imagine if you will, taking something like your raincoat/poncho and using it as a "door" for extra coverage on the windward side of the rain. I'm guessing that if you had your rain gear at the end of the hammock as additional blockage, everything under the tarp would have been dry.

The challenge is to carry gear for the 80-90 percent situations and improvise for the others. You said your tarp had doors so I'm thinking that aspect might need looking at. I'd take that tarp to a park and set it up without a hammock to see what it takes to get those doors closed. Then add the hammock to see if it can be done while keeping the integrity of the closed doors.

One of the things we tout over tent campers is our ability to set the tarp up first, then arrange our hammock and gear while dry, under the tarp. That said, I find it easier to set the hammock up first - then center the tarp over the hammock. But again, living in high desert country and carefully checking the weather before outings, I seldom have to deal with storms. I need to seek them out. DRY, under a tarp, with rain pouring day, would be very relaxing for me (assuming the sun would come out early the next day so I can pack everything up dry.)

I believe that water was coming in via suspensions lines. There was just so much rain that the suspensions lines eventually became saturated, nullifying the benefits of the drip lines that I had installed. At least, that is what I believe to have occurred.

I'd think, if your tarp sides were at ground level, you'd have to stake them wider if you wanted to lower the tarp closer to the hammock.

That is exactly the issue. I had to pitch the doors wider in order to lower the tarp, which made the hammock ends more vulnerable, since I couldn't really close them for a better seal.

I wonder if a narrower tarp would alleviate this problem, so I could angle the doors inward and pitch them tighter, creating a better seal.



Everything else you mentioned is a good to know. I'll try using a poncho or rain jacket to create a better seal, like a "tarp beak". I used a trash bag to achieve that, which did help.

[Snow Leopard]

I've been through some doozies here in Florida, but typically they don't last that long...our afternoon rains tend to be the east and west coast sea breezes meeting in the middle and blowing up, with a good 10-15 minute rager with winds and torrential rains. By October those are pretty much gone.

The all-day or overnight rains tend to be more frontal. In the winter, the biggies are nor'easters or Canadian blizzards that spin/push their way down south, usually snow and ice up north but major rain event down here.

For those times I know we're gonna get a deluge, I follow Shug's advice on lowering the tarp. I bring it down to the hammock ridgeline. When I get in, the hammock will drop a few inches but it stays pretty close. If I know the direction the storm is coming from I'll try to set up broadside to the wind. On the windward side, I'll pull the sides down at a steeper angle. The biggest issue is the tarp blowing in on me.

In the pic below, we were out island camping...was super windy all day, with a big front moving in later that evening that rained through the night and for the next two days. My gear got damp...mostly from the rain dripping off the tarp getting blasted by the wind into a mist and blown underneath the tarp. This is where an underquilt protector or a larger tarp would've been handy. This tarp is a WB Thunderfly...pretty good coverage but nowhere near the width of the tarp you were using. I'd say I stayed bone dry...the beetle buckles worked as a water break and my underquilt got some windspray on it but never really soaked through. I think the DWR coating helps in that regard.

Now, the time we had some super heavy ground fog for a few hours? Everything got wet.

Attachment 189282

I am really curious about the Thunderfly now. I like reading about their performance in adverse weather. It seems like a tarp that can pull "double duty" in rainstorms and provide good ventilation and "views from the interior" in fair weather.

[TominMN]

It just doesn't seem like the rainfly is the issue here. From what I've read, it wasn't rain blowing in but, rather, water running down the hammock suspension. Hanging the fly so low that the doors can't close seems counterproductive. It sure makes sense to hang a hex or asym low when the weather calls for it but that shouldn't really be an issue with having doors. Assuming a 110" SRL, you're going to have roughly a foot of fly beyond each end of the hammock. Do the best you can with drip lines under the fly and most of the time you'll be okay. Once in a while, not so much!

The more i think about it, I'm sure having extra drip lines beyond the fly couldn't hurt! Seems like they would interrupt part of the flow, but some sort of serious water break under the tarp is definitely needed when it pours.

[Snow Leopard]

I have the same tarp and I've never got wet, its a nice tarp with a lot of space.



The width shouldn't effect your ability to hang it closer, if anything it gives more space to avoid splashing by having a wider base.



Get lines a bit longer and attach the doors to the opposite pegs that you have the sides pulled out to. That way they overlap instead of clip.

I have a poor MS paint diagram to show it, red is right door, black is left. I would only do this on the end where the wind is blowing, you shouldn't have to do both doors, that way you can leave the other end open and get some air.

Capture.PNG

Also reading this thread I noticed you had drip lines outside the tarp, this does nothing because they will just get wet. Your drop lines need to be under the tarp.

On the pole mods, I have 2 but I actually prefer one, it gives me the space but lets me tie my ends closer. In the below picture you can see the one internal pole mod but I can get my ends tighter, I didn't overlap here but I could of and brought lines all the way out. But here I will stay very dry.

20200721_075955.jpg

Many thanks, this is all super helpful. I'm going to experiment and try a few new things with my setup.

I had drip lines inside and outside of tarp, both became totally saturated with rainwater. Oh well, that's the way she goes...I could add some twists and more water breaks.

I will play around with my tarp and try to find an optimal pitch with its wide body. I did stay pretty dry overall, but the foot end of both hammock and UQ were damp, likely because of drip line failure.

[Snow Leopard]

Snow Leopard, I have a MiniFly and ThunderFly. When you don't have the usual "vices", and you don't want to leave a lot "on the table" when you're gone, it is easier to buy more than one (tarp/hammock/quilt/etc.). But in my starving college student days, one would have been enough. My boots were heavier than today's packs and back then we - erroneously - prided ourselves on how much we could carry; not how light our packs were. So something like a SuperFly would have been either just right, or a little overkill, but I doubt I would have needed more.

There is a school of thought that admires/lusts after DCF tarps - and that's fine. But know there are CONS as well as PROS. UL gear isn't "just like regular gear but lighter (and more expensive)." For the same amount of money as a DCF tarp, I'd rather have two SilPoly tarps of different sizes.

I use a tarp more during the day than at night. That's because when resting during a day hike, I like a sunshade. I was using an asymmetrical tarp for that but I like the coverage of the rectangle/hex more. The minifly is just the ticket and I used it for an eight-day circumnavigation of Orcas Island a few weeks ago (see trip reports for photos). I've had it in the rain and it will keep me dry, though in a smaller footprint than a ThunderFly or larger. I use a UQP too. But if I knew it would really be a storm, or if I was winter camping and wanted the heat retention, then I'd definitely use a tarp with full doors.

It's tough to just have one tarp to rule them all. Oftentimes it's either "too much" or "too little", it seems.

It would be nice to have a few of them for different types of trips with varying weather conditions. But that also means more investment...time and money.

Thanks again for sharing experience about Minifly and Thunderfly.