Besides adding extra sleep clothing, what ideas might you have to add another 10* to my top quilt warmth. Would appreciate your input.
Besides adding extra sleep clothing, what ideas might you have to add another 10* to my top quilt warmth. Would appreciate your input.
- hammock top cover
- down or synthetic puffy blanket
- nalgene filled with hot water
- chemical hand warmers
I picked up one of these that I use (via alligator clips and some shock cord) to make an extra layer between hammock and UQ for the wildly varying temps I get from night to night. Feel like it gives me a solid 5° (maybe as much as 10°) bump in comfort. Packs down fairly well, and not a big weight impact if you aren't on the trail and instead working from a basecamp or car. Wouldn't see any reason it couldn't be used on top just as easily.
Jacks R Better Quilt liner is what I use. It can be a bit bulky if you don't roll it right, but adds warmth when needed, and makes a great summer TQ.
Hammock Tourist / Hammock Fiend / Hammock Therapist
Other than clothing, which is what I most commonly do to add top insulation? The old bombproof, works every time(for me) vapor barrier clothing. But, actually seems to add over 20ºF for me, so might require some venting of insulation if you only need 10F(or simply start with less insulation/clothing than normal). Depending on how prone I was to cold feet or legs, I might just use the VB shirt. If you are not using an already lined version, like the Stephenson's Warm Light(sp?) I use, it will amount to the added bulk and weight if a thin nylon(perhaps sil-nylon) shirt. If using the lined version, I think mine runs about 8 oz or less in X-large, it can possibly replace another layer that I would have otherwise been carrying, depending on temps.
This is an approach that can not be matched for weight, bulk and efficiency by any other addition, seems to me, because of it's unique advantage: in addition to being virtually guaranteed to keep me a lot warmer, it is the only approach that also guarantees keeping my actual insulation drier, by preventing any condensation of any body vapor in the insulation once the dew point is reached(or wicking of sweat before dew point is reached). So, no loss of loft or less efficient insulation as the night goes on, due to dampness. Particularly useful on longer trips.
And easily experimented with to see if you like it or hate it. By using WM grocery bags or bread bags for VB socks(for more comfort, over thinnest layer available of socks), with or without wool socks over the bread bags. And using even breathable rain gear for upper body and leg VB. Amazingly, seems to work. Maybe not as well as a true VB, but does seem to work adequately. (and if it does work, means zero added weight/bulk/expense). Since I had so little of my gear with me on last year's Christmas trip to the NC mountains- sleeping at about 3500 ft with forecast lows below 20 plus wind- with no tarp and worried about wind under the porch where I was sleeping- I both layered up and used my breathable rain jacket as a faux VB. ( I think I only had the thin nylon socks I ha worn all day, no VB, but a sit pad inside my foot box and down jacket over the foot box Shug style, I'd have to go back and look at my original report).
Using a 30F TQ and 30F insulated hammock, at 25F plus some definite wind chill, after about 2 hours I was roasting, head to toe. I had to remove my hood and foot pad and the down jacket over foot box, and I don't know what all else to cool down enough to sleep. I'm pretty sure a bunch of that overheating, at temps below the rating of my quilts, was due to the faux VB/breathable rain gear worn close to my skin. The 30F quilts are conservatively rated, IMO, but not enough- even with some warm clothing- to make me overheat a lot at 25F plus wind chill, I don't think.
So, if all else fails, this is 1 more arrow in the quiver, so to speak. Edit: this approach also adds the same amount of warmth to your UQ, unlike added clothing which might be mostly compressed, though fleece not so much.
Last edited by BillyBob58; 05-10-2022 at 10:18.
you think one of these might be overkill BillyBob?
https://www.amazon.com/tyvek-suit/s?k=tyvek+suit
HA! I do think so, unless you are also going to cook meth while you are out!Originally Posted by Crawldaddy
But, the price seems right. For a full suit with hood? OTOH, are they disposable? Which I guess means very fragile and not very reusable. Yep, a bit overkill, but would work. I think I'll just stick with my SWL VB shirt and socks lined with FuzzyStuff, and my WPB rain gear pants under my puffy pants or just under my TQ, depending on temps.
Then again, just wearing my WPB pants and hooded jacket seemed to work really well that one time, as far as boosting warmth at least. But I've not yet been able to put it to the test to see if it truly works as well to keep body moisture out of the insulation. I've never understood how something supposedly breathable can also work as a VB, but people say they do. Even SWL(sellers of VBs) says they will work. And if they do work even almost as well as a true VB, then that means nothing extra has to be purchased, or packed and carried. Then again, if you have been needing your rain gear as actual rain gear and it has not dried out by bed time, that might be a problem. Or, if you need your rain gear while sitting around camp(or doing chores) in the cold, blowing snow AND are wishing for a VB? Pros and Cons, but I will probably stick with just packing something extra that can work as a VB if needed. Either way, this approach sure has added to my warmth assurance.
Last edited by BillyBob58; 05-11-2022 at 07:46.
Re: WPB as VB, I agree with you that it slows the rate of vapor transmission and does indeed help.HA! I do think so, unless you are also going to cook meth while you are out!
Then again, just wearing my WPB pants and hooed jacket seemed to work really well that one time, as far as boosting warmth at least. But I've not yet been able to put it to the test to see if it truly works as well to keep body moisture out of the insulation. I've never understood how something supposedly breathable can also work as a VB, but people say they do. Even SWL(sellers of VBs) says they will work. And if they do work even almost as well as a true VB, then that means nothing extra has to be purchased, or packed and carried. Then again, if you have been needing your rain gear as actual rain gear and it has not dried out by bed time, that might be a problem. Or, if you need your rain gear while sitting around camp(or doing chores) in the cold, blowing snow AND are wishing for a VB? Pros and Cons, but I will probably stick with just packing something extra that can work as a VB if needed. Either way, this approach sure has added to my warmth assurance.
A multi-purpose "VB suit" that I've mentioned before — and apologies if I'm beating it to death, again — is the Lightheart Gear rain jacket (hooded) and pants that are made of silpoly with PU coating, which is not breathable. The jacket has very generous pit zips and Velcro cuffs, and of course full front zipper, and it ventilates adequately when needed. The pants not so much... no zips at all except down near the cuffs to facilitate donning them over shoes. However, recently I had my local tailor put some 16" zips from thigh to calf and they are perfect now.
Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ~ Gen. George S Patton
Thanks for reminding me of that trick, HillbillyHanger! I can't remember who I got that idea from, maybe Shug? Not sure, 13 or 14 years ago! But that worked very well indeed for me on my first trip back to the Wind River Mountains in September at 10,000+ ft with lows in the 20F range. And for my 1st other than back yard use of the 20F rated Speer Pea Pod. I was trying to count ounces for those multi mile hikes over high mountain passes with such thin air to breath. The one flaw(which could become an advantage at colder than rated temps) of the beloved old pod was that while it was the best thing I had ever used for consistency of meeting it's back warmth rating, not so much on the top. Because of the way a hammock's side edges- especially a wide, deep hammock- would tend to lift the TQ part of the pod off of my body, leaving a gap that needed filling. Ed Speer's rating for himself(a notoriously cold sleeper), with his deep Speer hammock- was only 50F, despite 2.5" of top loft(plus another 2.5" of bottom loft). More like 40 or maybe 30s for me wearing warm clothing. But we were going to very likely be in the 20s or below.
My hammock at that time- a Claytor No Net- was NOT wide or deep, and any gap was only minimal. Still, it was enough lift where I needed something else. Plus, with ANY gap, if I had any significant face vent, the warm air from leg and torso area would tend to run right out of that, so I needed something like a lofty neck collar. I had a 20F TQ, but that just seemed like over kill. It would way more than fill the gap, and give 5" of single layer top loft! What is the rating of 5" single layer loft? WAY below zero.
I knew just sleeping in my lofty clothing(inside the pod) would get me pretty close( I was not using VBs yet, except the space blanket in my HHSS, or maybe socks only). Close, but no cigar. Then someone here gave me the idea of wearing my warm clothing- which I had with me anyway- unzipped and BACKWARDS- and boy did that improve the boost from the clothing! I had a nice thick down vest, and a not near as thick Polarguard jacket, and when I put them on backwards, it seemed to puff up a lot more than normal(bottom layer came into use rather than being smashed flat). Any gap was entirely filled, and maybe more important, the huge draft that would arise if I had any significant vent hole over my face was totally fixed, since the clothing now made an excellent neck collar. I felt that if it had been any colder, I would have needed something else(maybe a hot water bottle? or VBs if I had thought about it!) and I decided I would still prefer a 40F or even 50F TQ to fill that gap, just for sheer luxury and convenience. Still, for this week long trip, the cold weather clothing I had with me- worn backwards while sleeping- got me by WITH ZERO ADDED WEIGHT, BULK OR EXPENSE! A very useful trick for CrawlDaddy indeed!
Oh yes, that will work for sure! And if you(like some) are of the opinion that WPB doesn't really work long term for being breathable or keeping water out, and you are willing to use this for rain gear, 2 problems(need more warmth and need rain protection) fixed with 1 UL item! Also looks better than my SWL VB shirt(which I call my "duct tape shirt". LOL! But, it sure works well! I love it's "Fuzzystuff" liner, really improves VB comfort, IMO.
Last edited by BillyBob58; 05-11-2022 at 11:01.
I made a top quilt from a Costco Down Throw. I intended to use it by itself in very warm weather, but have had good success using it inside another top quilt to extend the cold weather range. Snaps to attach it inside the main quilt would help, but so far I haven't tossed/turned enough for the two quilts to drift apart during the night.
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