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  1. #11
    New Member
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    Oct 2021
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    Cincinnati Ohio
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    9
    When I tent camped, I always used a long/wide pad, 77x25 Neoair. I'm a big guy(think offensive lineman build). I sold all my ground gear to buy the Warbonnet, but kept the Zlite as it's multi use and cheap, but its the standard 72x20 size. I wont be buying another inflatable pad. 2 questions: does a wider 25" pad fit in the Blackbird XLC? It has that sleeve/doubling or whatever. And since the pad will strictly be used as insulation/for warmth not comfort, should I get a wider foam pad? My shoulders ARE wider than 20" and will hang off. I dont want to to give myself the proverbial cold shoulder.

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Central Oregon
    Posts
    394
    bigben,

    Welcome.

    My first year of hammocking, I used the widest ccf pad Thermarest made. It was and stillis a great piece of gear. I then used a Teton Zero Degree Rectangular Sleeping bag inside the hammock. It worked very well but it will take some adjusting everytime you move, turn over, get into or out of the hammock. The rectangular sleeping bag was easier to get into and out of then a mummy bag. It was way easier to zip up around me too.

    In my opinion, your shoulders will need to be covered and/or insulated top and bottom. You will loose heat if you dont do this. Even in warmer weather, you will feel a chill.

    After a year in, realizing how comfortable the hammock sleep was, out in the woods, I then upgraded. First purchase, as recommended above, was an Underquilt, as I could just pull my Teton sleeping bag ontop of me using it as a Top Quilt. Next purchase was the Top Quilt. Top Quilt and Underquilt are worth their weight in gold. Went from comfortable with the ccf pad/sleeping bag setup to bliss with the TQ and UQ.

    Keep in mind the ccf pad will create condensation through the night. As far as I know noone has figured out why. After a sleep in all kinds of weather, Ive literally poured drops of water out of the Thermarest dimples. That said, a nice solution to this is to encase the ccf pad with one of the Cocoon Brand bed covers. People also use these inside their sleeping bags as liners. The cotton cover over the ccf pad reduces the condensation to about zero, probably due to the breathability of the cotton cover. In a pinch, Ive also just slipped the ccf pad inside of two cotton t shirts.

    If you cant find the Coccon liners Im talking about let me know and Ill search for them and attach them later.

    Enjoy the journey. It is worth it.

    Bob

  3. #13
    cougarmeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Bend, OR
    Hammock
    WBBB, WBRR, WL LiteOwl
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    OES, WL BullFro
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    HG UQ, TQ, WB UQ
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    Python Straps
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    3,758
    Draketake, the condensation issue isn’t a mystery.
    From Googling “What casuses condenstation:

    "Condensation occurs when warm air collides with cold surfaces, or when there's too much humidity in your home. When this moisture-packed warm air comes into contact with a chilly surface, it cools down quickly and releases the water, which turns into liquid droplets on the cold surface”

    Because the CCF is not breathable, the “moisture-packed warm air” stops there, is cooled, and turns to liquid. The same thing happens inside a rainproof rain suit, and single wall tent, a UQP made of waterproof fabric, etc.

    My guess is, the cotton cover doesn’t reduce condensation per say, it might absorb a bit of it. But I’m not a person who understands the micro climate inside a hammock setup (or vapor barriers). It’s just that it’s not a mystery. When you have a surface that’s cooler than the warm moist air/vapor and that surface does not allow the vapor to pass, then the vapor turns to liquid on the surface.

    BigBen, one of the features of many Top Quilts is they often have a bungee cinch cord and snap at the head end collar. So you can snap the collar into a circle, put it over your head, and cinch it down a bit so it is snug around your neck and shoulders. Sometimes, as the early morning warms up, it’s too warm. In that case, you can release the bungee toggle a bit so the TQ is not as snug, or simply unsnap the collar.

    There is also and accessory for a pad - something that adds “wings” to the sides for a short distance. That device would widen the pad’s insulation at your shoulder area. I’m sure someone will chime in with its name/source.

    I started out with double layer gear - with the idea that I may have to go to ground so I’m bringing a pad anyway. But I quickly switched to the comfort of an underquilt. And if I do have to go to ground with a pad, I’d be using the hammock as a bivi bag and the pad wouldn’t have to be in a double layer. In other words, if I’m uncertain of the tree situation, I’d rather carry the UQ and pad instead of just the pad. A ¾ length CCF for me “hardly weighs a thing” (UL’ers shudder)
    Last edited by cougarmeat; 04-09-2022 at 13:27.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Central Oregon
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    394
    Cougar,

    I was thinking that was the issue. Thanks for the input. Luckily my UQ has never been wet as a result of the condensation buildup, when I use the Cocoon cover.

    bigben heres the link:

    https://www.cocoon.at/en/products-ov...-i-mummyliners

    have a good weekend all.

    Bob

  5. #15
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Hammock
    I have many so....
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    Blackcrow DIY Tarp
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigben55 View Post
    When I tent camped, I always used a long/wide pad, 77x25 Neoair. I'm a big guy(think offensive lineman build). I sold all my ground gear to buy the Warbonnet, but kept the Zlite as it's multi use and cheap, but its the standard 72x20 size. I wont be buying another inflatable pad. 2 questions: does a wider 25" pad fit in the Blackbird XLC? It has that sleeve/doubling or whatever. And since the pad will strictly be used as insulation/for warmth not comfort, should I get a wider foam pad? My shoulders ARE wider than 20" and will hang off. I dont want to to give myself the proverbial cold shoulder.
    Yes a wider pad or cross part of an old ccf pad across shoulder area and tape it on.
    or make an SPE (segmented pad extender) http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearSPE.php
    See an SPE at 4:40 in video below.
    Shug

    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    2,454
    Quote Originally Posted by Draketake View Post
    Cougar,

    I was thinking that was the issue. Thanks for the input. Luckily my UQ has never been wet as a result of the condensation buildup, when I use the Cocoon cover.

    bigben heres the link:

    https://www.cocoon.at/en/products-ov...-i-mummyliners

    have a good weekend all.

    Bob
    There's a big difference between condensation and perspiration that gets trapped (and not allowed to evaporate) by the surface of a pad. Laying directly on a non-permeable surface is an issue whether in a hammock or on the ground. IT becomes even more noticeable in a hammock as one doesn't move around quite as much. Even a simple cotton cover can often add enough wicking to dissipate that moisture in moderate weather. In colder weather, a cotton cover may end up not dissipating the moisture quickly enough...

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Central Oregon
    Posts
    394
    Tomin,

    Thanks for the input. I think what saved me is that the Thermarest Ridgerest Pad had deep dimples. I think the dimples are designed to allow less surface area to come into contact with the body of the user, trying to circumvent what you described. Those dimples collected or may even have possibly led to the condensation.

    FWIW, Over the course of my life, due to work and recreation, I spent hundreds of nights on a CCF Pad, in everything from Desert to Alpine environments. The only times I had condensation issues were in a hammock.

    Be safe all.

    Bob

  8. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    2,454
    Quote Originally Posted by Draketake View Post
    ...

    FWIW, Over the course of my life, due to work and recreation, I spent hundreds of nights on a CCF Pad, in everything from Desert to Alpine environments. The only times I had condensation issues were in a hammock.

    ...
    Curious: is that sleeping directly on the pad or having part of a sleeping bag under you?

  9. #19
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Denton NC
    Hammock
    WildernessLogics 12x6
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    HG cuben 13ridge12
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    S and D
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    4,925
    Gossamer Gear sells pads 70 inches by 40 inches
    If after an overnight or two, you want pad less wide.
    Mark pad with a sharpie where you want to cut.

    I don’t remember thickness of pad, maybe 3/16 or 1/8 inches

    Use a good scissors to cut along your sharpie mark.

    When you can, switch to top quilt and under quilt set.
    Get 20* rated set. Then a year or so later get a zero* set and a 40* set….if needed.

    I used a pad for about a year? And got 20* quilt set, for year round use, until my money caught up with me.

  10. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Burlington, VT
    Hammock
    Dream Hammock custom Sparrow
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    15'x15' DD
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    SLD Trailwinder UQ
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    56
    Bigben
    I am relatively new to this too.
    I got an underquilt from Jared at Simply Light Designs.
    It's called the Trailwinder.
    He has an interesting system where you can specify the fabric and the amount of insulation....and some overfill if you want.
    But the big bonus for me, is that he has an "add-on" system.
    He puts snaps on the base underquilt. For winter or when you need more insulation, you snap on the additional underquilt. So you have flexibility of using the add-on or not.

    This also means you can decide exactly what insulation you want for the main season and how much you want to add for the shoulder seasons or winter, depending on temps you intend to be camping in.

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