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  1. #11
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    I have both a Phoenix and an Arrowhead Designs 3/4 UQs that I use most of the time. Plenty enough for three seasons. Plus less bulk and weight for backpacking. This time of year I haul out the Cedar Ridge Outdoors XL UQ.

  2. #12
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raladd View Post
    How do people keep the pad stable under your feet while you sleep?
    Never been an issue for me - it stays put just fine. Once I'm asleep, I don't move much - YMMV

  3. #13
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    I used some thin CCF and woke up with moisture on the pad. Maybe an egg shell type would have been better. Since then I’ve used an inflatable sit pad and that has been super comfy. I am less inclined to use the sit pad as a sit pad though when the ground is rough/rocky.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  4. #14
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    I think what Shug said is right on: "You will get a lot of opinions but will never know for sure until you try it."

    I have a 3/4 length JRB Greylock 4, and old(no longer available) JRB MW3 convertible (convets from full length to 3/4) and the original winter WB Yeti, a truly short UQ that has removable layers of the synthetic Climashield. I am a fan. I have always suspected (just based on personal experience and opinion) that the shorter UQs are easier to use, without developing some sort of gap, than the full length, at least on gathered end hammocks. And a fellow that used to be here, Cannibal, (sadly, now deceased), took that same CS Yeti (and today's down model that followed) to below zero, with foot pads, and was fine. Of course, he was a self proclaimed human furnace. Here is a picture of him testing the very first prototypes of the synthetic Yeti at his Dad's house on a 5ºF Christmas. He was using his Dad's ancient synthetic bag as a top quilt, and either his pack or a cut down pad for his feet, can't remember which. I don't think he put pads inside the footbox, but again, not sure. His Dad took the picture while he was still sawing logs. You can see the spot on the net where his breath was keeping the snow melted. Amazingly, no tarp. He was fine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raladd View Post
    How do people keep the pad stable under your feet while you sleep? I got a Phoenix last spring, and haven’t used it much because I haven’t done much backpacking. I have the Arrowhead Equipment foam pad, but I’ve used it more for sitting at this point than sleeping.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I have the same pad. It will stay put in the footbox, but is not as easy to use as a stiffer pad. (but easier to pack, and probably lighter). Another way to keep it in place would be inside a double layer hammock's pad pocket. Some folk's report condensation if NOT inside the foot box. Some don't. My step son and I have not had condensation problems, and neither did Cannibal.But some folks do, and those who have not might have problems if conditions are right. Then again, I often use vapor barrier socks and that will 100% prevent any condensation, either on the pad or inside the footbox's down. But, the pad inside the footbox is definitely easier to control, and condensation free.

    On the other other hand, if I move into fetal using the extra short synthetic Yeti (truly a great UQ), and I end up rotating the TQ when doing so, it is easier for me to reach out and reposition the pad so that it is still under my lower legs and feet, and maybe even my knees, which might now be hitting the hard top edge of a bridge hammock. So, as always, pros and cons.

    Quote Originally Posted by iPlod View Post
    I used some thin CCF and woke up with moisture on the pad. Maybe an egg shell type would have been better. Since then I’ve used an inflatable sit pad and that has been super comfy. I am less inclined to use the sit pad as a sit pad though when the ground is rough/rocky.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    See the above. Inside the footbox or vapor barrier socks should solve the condensation issue, give one or both a try!

    Though I am a fan of torso sized or 3/4 sized UQs, and feel they are more consistent and easier to avoid gaps than full length, and my son and I have never failed to be warm using them with a foot pad(or even without if not very cold), there is nothing like the convenience factor of a full length UQ that is perfectly adjusted even after I change positions, like going from back to fetal. With the shorties, I probably will have to readjust the pad position if changing position. When I use a full length on a bridge hammock, nothing is going to change regarding quilt adjustment no matter how I change position. For 1 example, when I have slept with a full length(or partial) JRB MW on a JRB bridge hammock, no matter where a body part lands, there is guaranteed to be a section of uncompressed UQ to meet it and keep it warm. Every time. If my feet or knees (in fetal) end up on the bridge hammock's sides, it is warm, there is a snug fit anywhere my body might contact. I don't have to worry about an UQ coming out of perfect adjustment, nor about repositioning a pad. It cost me some weight and bulk and money, but it is luxurious. So if car camping with a bridge hammock below 20 or 30F, I usually go with the full length. Backpacking where every oz counts, I am more partial to the shorter UQs.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 01-16-2022 at 14:15.

  5. #15
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    With a 3/4 underquilt, I believe height would be a factor. I use an AHE Jarbidge(3 season) and at my height(5'6") am able to get full coverage. Also use an AHE Owyhee top quilt and have had no issues with cold feet. Have not felt the need for additional isulation in the TQ foot box.

  6. #16
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    I found that old thread where Cannibal tested the prototype torso sized(neck to butt) WB Climashield Yeti in a CO winter. I need to Edit my above response. The temp was uncertain, since his thermometer crapped out at 13F. Other than that, he asked GrizzlyAdams to find the temp for him, and at the nearest station only had 17F. But later Cannibal was able to get some more data from a local weather station which which showed 10F, and I found one at 8F. So my "5f" from memory was wrong. But, turns out he did use only a pack for leg/foot warmth, he had a pad on standby. But he was fine with this torso sized UQ between 8F and 17F(or maybe colder at his Dad's house, depending on elevation). Without even using a tarp while it was snowing. Using an old Coleman bag probably rated at 40F "back in the day". And lots of layers(that is the way I often do it!) Sadly, the pictures don't work anymore, glad I saved that picture of him hanging tarp-less in the snow, with a torso sized UQ! But here is that thread and OP, which I have edited a bit (reduced content) and bolded some areas for emphasis. I have also copied another post of him testing this at minus 5F. This was Christmas 07.
    https://hammockforums.net/forum/show...orso-Length-UQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
    Twas two nights before Christmas and all through the house not a bed was empty not even for this louse. But out in the back where the squirrels run the show were two lonely trees, buried in snow.

    Pops snuck out and got shots of me sleeping in the morning. I know where I get my sneaky genes from now!
    (BillyBob58 adds/Edits: I am inserting (from my HF saved photos) that now missing picture here:

    This was my first opportunity to really test this new UQ. A word of waring here: I am a warm sleeper; always have been. Please remember that if you are trying to draw a comparison. Overnight temps were forecast to be 8F with a light breeze. I have not yet got a top quilt so I had to make due with an old Coleman bag. My initial plan was to use the Gossamer Gear 1/8” ‘hammock pad’ that was waiting for me. But, being the pad-hater that I am I thought I’d try without it on the first (and coldest forecast) night of the week.

    Here’s what I had:

    Warbonnet ElDorado
    Warbonnet Torso Length UQ w/sil liner
    ULA Catalyst (pack)
    Coleman Bag (probably rated to about 40 back in the day)
    Thermal undies
    Hoodie Sweatshirt
    Fleece Pullover
    Wool skully cap
    SOCKS! Yes, that is plural. One set of liners and two pairs of mid-weight wool hiking socks. (I've got sissy feet)
    1/8” pad for back-up if needed.

    I went to bed about midnight(ish) with temps right around 20F. I had decided to use the sil liner that WBG sent because there was a breeze forecast and the only place I could set-up didn’t offer me the option of being able to easily deploy a tarp and I wanted some wind protection. I had a fence on one side so it really wasn’t much of a concern, just a good excuse. Colorado is so arid that condensation really didn’t concern me too much.

    Since the WB UQ is a torso length, you must have something under your legs/feet. The UQ goes from just above my shoulder to just below my bum. This is the main reason for a pad; it gets folded and goes under my legs. However, Cannibal hates pads so I figured I’d just throw my empty pack in under my legs. I sometimes use it as a leg rest anyway, so this was no big deal. I did keep the pad somewhat close by….just in case. I opened up the bag to use ‘quilt style’, grabbed my digital thermometer and off to la-la land I went.

    I didn’t wake-up until Mama Nature came a knockin. I got out of the hammock and took care of business, but when I got back into the hammock I couldn’t get warm. I have no idea what the temp was because it was cold enough that the LCD on my thermometer was not working; just a blank screen. I have no idea if it was still reading or not; hopefully Grizz will chime in with that fancy weather site he uses and I’ll see what the temps actually dropped to last night. I decided to close up the bag and hope that I’d be able to build up enough heat that way instead of going for the pad. It worked! Next thing I know I was being attacked by my Pop’s ferocious dog in the morning. Who by the way, loved hanging-out in the hammock; smart dog..................................

    The thermometer was working again and reading a ‘low’ of 13.3F. I suspect it got a couple of degrees cooler, but don’t know for sure. I was warm all night except for about 10 or 15 minutes after the bathroom break. There was zero condensation on, or in, the UQ/liner............................................. .............

    .................................................. ...............................

    Later he was finally just starting to get cold at MINUS 5F, but even then, he felt it was top warmth was the issue and not the UQ. One note: he was using both an inner and outer vapor barrier(again, like I like to do in the HHSS etc! ): i.e. a sil-nylon pillow case that surrounded the short UQ, thus keeping his back from suffering any evaporative cooling, keeping any body sweat or vapor from getting into his UQ's insulation and condensing and even freezing, and with it's outer layer serving like a tarp at least for the UQ: keeping out all external wind/rain/snow. A brilliant concept! So, as far as wind or snow, he only had to worry about his topside insulation. But as directly relates this thread: it shows people can for sure go to sub zero temps and be warm only using a leg pd or pack. Now as for the convenience and luxury of a perfectly pitched/hung/tensioned full length UQ, especially on a bridge hammock, that is a different consideration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
    Wow! I found the limits of my current set-up last night. Here is the link to the weather station closest to my Pop's house. I woke-up just before 6:00am cold; I wasn't shivering, but it wasn't far off. I slept fine the rest of the night, but apparently -5F is my limit. If I put my face out of my bag, every time I'd breathe I could count to about 7 and I'd feel 'snow' falling on my face. I guess the moisture in my breath would freeze and fall back down.

    Since my RMS ( BillyBob58 adds: JRB Rocky Mountain Sniveler TQ) is waiting for me in Florida (don't know why Pops sent it there instead of here) I am still using an old Coleman bag. I wasn't really feeling a lot of cold from underneath so I think this Warbonnet UQ could go a few degrees colder, but not with that Coleman bag on top!

    Off to make some hot cocoa; wonder where they hid the peppermint schnapps?
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 01-16-2022 at 16:13.

  7. #17
    gunner76's Avatar
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    just put a sit pad down in the food box to keep your feet warm” - but does that REALLY work?
    Yes. I just throw my coat/jacket down at the foot end of my hammock and rest my feet on that. If my feet are damp, I keep them out of the TQ foot box until they are dry.
    I am still 18 but with 52 years of experience !

  8. #18
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WesArnold View Post
    I have been considering a 3/4 length phoenix. Most of the stuff you can find folks are like “ just put a sit pad down in the food box to keep your feet warm” - but does that REALLY work?
    The sit pad doesn't work for me in temps below 30* F, but my 20* 3/4 Phoenix works fine in temps 30* F and above. I wouldn't worry about needing a sit pad for a a 40* Phoenix.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  9. #19
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    I'm on old man on blood thinner so I sleep cold. I bought one of the 40 degree Phoenix UQs when the Econ line came out. I used it for Summer Camp in July with the Boy Scouts. Even in July I have to use an UQ when it's below 70 or so at night. I also have a 25 degree Greylock 3 that I've used down to around 27 and been very comfortable. I have experimented with a couple of different pads in the colder temperatures. I have used the Arrowhead equipment foam pad and the Thermarest sit pad that Mr. Emery talks about. For me, it is the most comfortable, easiest to keep in place. The Arrowhead pad is great coverage, but it's so thin that it can move around inside the top quilt. I tend to use the Thermarest pad sligtly under-inflated the most. At 40F and above, I don't really need the pad, but I get so used to sleeping with it that I tend to use it. I've started using the Arrowhead pad as a supplemental piece of insulation. It's so light, that i often just have it in the hammock for those early morning hours when it's really cold and I start to feel the "phantom" cold when the metabolism is slowing down.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raladd View Post
    How do people keep the pad stable under your feet while you sleep? I got a Phoenix last spring, and haven’t used it much because I haven’t done much backpacking. I have the Arrowhead Equipment foam pad, but I’ve used it more for sitting at this point than sleeping.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    The Thermarest sit pad stays in place really well. I've had the Arrowhead pad roll up on me. I tend to use it for supplemental insulation (those times that I don't do a great job adjusting the quilt suspension and just jump in and go to sleep).

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