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  1. #1
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    Question Bridges: Channeled vs Four Corner Suspension, L&W, Fabric

    First, thank you to all who have posted and shared their hammock experiences for the rest of us!

    I have successfully made the Ariel Bridge hammock (again, thanks for the videos and plans!) and about to start a second build. But before I do, I have a few questions I was hoping to bounce off more experienced folks here.

    Channeled vs Four Corner Suspension?
    The Ariel has a channeled suspension with the amsteel running the entire length of the body on each side. However, most all of the bridges on the market (and DIY kits) today appear to use a sewn-in strengthener (ie grosgrain) with a turned seam along the body with suspension attached at each of the four corners. My question is simply "why and does it matter?" Has one method proved to be superior? Stronger? Lighter? Less costly? Just wanted to understand if there has been some learning from the original Ariel design that would suggest this design modification.

    Also, if the "sewn in" method is best, why not extend and loop the ribbon ends to hold the spreader bars, keeping one continuous line? I would think this would make it stronger vs. using shorter, sewn in pieces to hold the hardware. Thoughts?

    Length and Width
    If I wanted to increase the length and width of the Ariel design, what factors do I need to consider to not compromise the design? My objectives are to get a deeper, more dropped down lay (wider body) and get the spreader bar out of my face (longer length). Will this work without drastically changing the lay? Do I adjust the cat curve based on the new length only or do I also need to do something with the depth of the curve?

    Fabric
    For my first, I used 1.9 oz Ripstop Nylon. There is quite a substantial amount of pulling away from seams occurring, especially at the body mid-point. Now, I'm probably (definitely) pushing weight limits and may have sewn with too big of a needle, but I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this with the Ariel design. I sewed in a second layer in this area (to keep pad) but I can't imagine that is the cause. I bought 2.2 oz HEX70 XL fabric for my next version.

    Any thoughts and advice is welcomed/appreciated before I pull the trigger on sewing my next bridge hammock.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Cruiser51's Avatar
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    No advice on the Ariel, but here is a link to my last build, which uses a sewn in suspension, you may find some answers and/or ideas

    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...t-Bridge-Mk-II


    Brian

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    Thanks, I’ll take a look. Appreciate your response.

  4. #4
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    No matter whether you use webbing or a cord, the end-to-end force goes through the side of the hammock body the same way. And that force is considerable. Having built several bridge hammocks, I wouldn't expect grosgrain to be up to the task. The choice comes down to considering construction details and counting grams (if you're into that sort of thing).

  5. #5
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    +1 to G-rat on choice of webbing for the sides. I've used 1/2" polyester, which is strong enough. 1" is even better because it can flatten the edge so it doesn't cut into the backs of your legs as much when you're sitting in the hammock. All that said, many of my bridge hammocks use tendons in a channel, similar to the ariel design. The PBH has more force exerted on the channel where it bends at the knees, so I reinforce it with some polyester blanket binding. If I don't mind an extra half an ounce, I use blanket binding for the whole channel length, instead of just at the knee bends and the corners. For all edge and suspension sewing I use Tera 40 thread for strength.

  6. #6
    DGrav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy.boyer View Post
    Channeled vs Four Corner Suspension?
    The Ariel has a channeled suspension with the amsteel running the entire length of the body on each side. However, most all of the bridges on the market (and DIY kits) today appear to use a sewn-in strengthener (ie grosgrain) with a turned seam along the body with suspension attached at each of the four corners. My question is simply "why and does it matter?" Has one method proved to be superior? Stronger? Lighter? Less costly? Just wanted to understand if there has been some learning from the original Ariel design that would suggest this design modification.

    Also, if the "sewn in" method is best, why not extend and loop the ribbon ends to hold the spreader bars, keeping one continuous line? I would think this would make it stronger vs. using shorter, sewn in pieces to hold the hardware. Thoughts?


    Any thoughts and advice is welcomed/appreciated before I pull the trigger on sewing my next bridge hammock.
    Congrats on your first hammock!

    We use webbing sewn-in on our James River Bridge (grosgrain is not strong enough to take the stress). The webbing is easier to work with and since we sew it in we can ensure that it is a consistent length and positioned symmetrically on both sides so the hammock doesn't have a slight tilt one way or the other. As a side note when we were designing the James River Bridge we tried Kevlar webbing but it started showing signs of fraying after only a few tests.

    My concern is with running Amsteel through the channel is that it could abraid the fabric over time. The same could happen with webbing but since it is sewn in place it does not have any movement within the channel that could act like a saw.

    We have always used the webbing as the attachment point for the spreader. On the Bear Mountain Bridge, we looped the webbing through rings and then stitched it back on itself. For the James River Bridge we do the same but use the DutchWare bridge corner hardware.
    Jacks R Better, makers of the of the Original Under Quilt and Bear Mountain Bridge Hammock.
    www.jacksrbetter.com
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  7. #7
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    Wendy, I have RidgeRunner and RSBTR DIY Kit bridge hammocks. For strength, the kit uses narrow webbing along the sides and spreader loops. The original kit design used hardware (metal) for the spreader bar connection - as did early Ridge Runners. Now the RidgeRunner - as you suggested - just inserts the spreader pin in the amsteel suspension lines. I added a “button” that also protects the tarp from the spreader bar points. I did the same with the kit. The amsteel is looped directly to the hammock end loops and has the buttons added. The hammock body is under a bit of tension so anything sliding would be suject to friction/abrasion. Also, I’ve had to work with three spreader pole pin diameters. The option spreader bars pins with the DIY Kit were about 7mm, the original spreader bars on the RR were about 5mm and the newer bars (and CF replacements) are about 4mm. So that has to be taken into account if a metal piece or button is used with the spreaders - make sure it’s hole will fit the spreader pins.

    Some friends prefer to hang their bridges so the distance between apex points - were the dog bones come together - is closer than manufacturer’s suggestion. It makes the bridge less tippy and it feels a little deeper. Maybe just playing with your hang distance will give you the drop feeling you are after.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  8. #8
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    Fun topic! (for me at least, lol).

    Congrats on your build... and welcome to bridge builder life. The first bridge is never the right bridge and the next bridge will be the first practice round of the following bridge
    Course that sums up most DIY projects I suppose.

    Cruiser has mentioned his expanded efforts. Here's another- https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...r-a-bigger-guy

    As fer me... my design is not available to copy as I sell them but I will add my thoughts below:


    Quote Originally Posted by wendy.boyer View Post
    First, thank you to all who have posted and shared their hammock experiences for the rest of us!

    I have successfully made the Ariel Bridge hammock (again, thanks for the videos and plans!) and about to start a second build. But before I do, I have a few questions I was hoping to bounce off more experienced folks here.

    Channeled vs Four Corner Suspension?
    The Ariel has a channeled suspension with the amsteel running the entire length of the body on each side. However, most all of the bridges on the market (and DIY kits) today appear to use a sewn-in strengthener (ie grosgrain) with a turned seam along the body with suspension attached at each of the four corners. My question is simply "why and does it matter?" Has one method proved to be superior? Stronger? Lighter? Less costly? Just wanted to understand if there has been some learning from the original Ariel design that would suggest this design modification.

    The Ariel is a bit difficult to build. Amsteel in channel is hard to do right and I do it differently than Grizz. If you ask me, it is a far superior method if comfort is your primary concern. Strength is a non-factor as you can make a flimsy version of either method (or mess up). Lighter- the lightest method is full sewn in. This is simply because you are using less raw material; no channel material and typically you can use a webbing along the edge that is lighter or equal to the amsteel.
    FWIW; I have made dozens of bridges with MIL-SPEC 1/2" grosgrain that hold 200lb folks for a good bit of time... so that is not the issue if done right. Less costly- by far if you're talking from a vendor perspective then rolled webbing edges are cheapest from a production standpoint. You're cutting the labor of complicated splicing and the costs of the channel construction. You're also cutting out all the design costs and prototyping needed to really nail your pattern and balance the bridge so it holds up well.
    So bottom line- I think that's why you've seen the rolled webbing edge (full sewn) design remain the most common. As WV (often) astutely notes, there are ways to do it better... and most find it comfortable enough to not pursue the complexity of amsteel in channel. The big advantage to Amsteel in channel is that it plays better with recessed bar designs, but again that is not an exclusive advantage.


    Also, if the "sewn in" method is best, why not extend and loop the ribbon ends to hold the spreader bars, keeping one continuous line? I would think this would make it stronger vs. using shorter, sewn in pieces to hold the hardware. Thoughts?

    Don (DGrav) covered this neatly. Even being a 1/4" off can leave the bridge feeling like it has a twist in it. There are some clean production advantages as well. To keep it one piece for DIY- you can simply run the webbing really long (if you don't care about weight) and then do a sewn loop at each end... basically incorporate the dogbones in. That said- the method most often used allows you to use a heavier piece of webbing as well as keep the spreader bar closest to the bridge body (or use hardware if you like). Again- commercial side mainly comes down to what flows through the shop well... for home use there is not much you can't get away with if you do it correctly... of course the chance of doing it wrong may be the best reason to avoid the attempt.

    A slight counter/correction to Don's point- on the ariel design at least- the amsteel is effectively sewn/pinned into the channel in such a way as it can't really saw back and forth at all. Mine use a different method but also limit travel in order to prevent a 'user error' issue I had early on. On my personal models earlier- I did not pin the amsteel and let it move freely with no issues. The Spreader bars limit the travel so unless you put some serious effort into it... no sawing action occurs.

    If it don't travel then what's the point you may scratch yer mouse in wonder? The biggest difference is that the limited travel you do have allows the whole structure to deflect and change under load. Sewn in webbing cannot change shape- but a channel wrapped around amsteel can. So that is where the extra comfort and more personalized 'molding' to your body comes into play that I find superior in the amsteel in channel design.


    Length and Width
    If I wanted to increase the length and width of the Ariel design, what factors do I need to consider to not compromise the design? My objectives are to get a deeper, more dropped down lay (wider body) and get the spreader bar out of my face (longer length). Will this work without drastically changing the lay? Do I adjust the cat curve based on the new length only or do I also need to do something with the depth of the curve?

    Short answer #1- new bridge, new pattern. Or basically you change one thing and you change the whole bridge. That's what I mean by 'balancing the bridge'.
    Short answer #2- you can cut the pattern in half head to foot and add a few inches there without too much drama for more width. Length- not so much.
    Short answer #3- recessed bars aren't for everyone- so you may want to try a hybrid design with an end bar head and recessed bar foot.
    Short answer #4- cheat a little by changing the spreader bar sizes. A little longer- bridge gets shallower. A little shorter- bridge gets deeper.

    Long answer- Go too deep and you get too much squeeze and it's hard to get out. Change one thing, you alter something else and you may break the design. So really you'd need to identify your problems with the current design, then work around them and find out what happens. Unlike most things... you can't seam rip a bridge and modify it once you're done... so you're pretty committed to any choices you make. The Ariel was the end result of dozens of full videos Grizz released (not to mention the non-video attempts along the way) My pattern took me over 50 different bridges to develop.


    Fabric
    For my first, I used 1.9 oz Ripstop Nylon. There is quite a substantial amount of pulling away from seams occurring, especially at the body mid-point. Now, I'm probably (definitely) pushing weight limits and may have sewn with too big of a needle, but I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this with the Ariel design. I sewed in a second layer in this area (to keep pad) but I can't imagine that is the cause. I bought 2.2 oz HEX70 XL fabric for my next version.

    Any thoughts and advice is welcomed/appreciated before I pull the trigger on sewing my next bridge hammock.
    1.9 ounce is good at highlighting your errors in design Bridges do best with a diagonal grid (like HyperD) or even better with an 8 way (or six way or whatever you want to call it) ripstop grid like you'd find on Mountain Hybrid 1.7 or others. Standard ripstop (vertical and horizontal) doesn't fare as well. You neglected to mention your actual weight, but since you mention you are definitely pushing it... sounds like you chose the wrong fabric for your weight. The seam elongation issue is common in a bad design or sewing technique... but simply put- it results from overstress. So standard grid 1.9 ounce ripstop in something like the Ariel... probably 175 ish lbs. Mountain 1.7 would probably get you closer to 225lbs, and the Hex 70 will get you in the 275lb range (assuming all else is correct). Yes- smallest needle you can use (probably a 14) is about right. Though don't feel too bad as some occasional seam elongation can happen to anyone and I've seen a fairly high tolerance for it in commercial bridges (not the ariel) as well. I don't get it often, but occasionally it can happen and I suspect it is more of a mill issue with the fabric than anything you or I can control. Second layer should have helped you if anything- so that is the only mildly odd bit of your tale. As WV mentioned... sometimes something as simple as a little binding strip to bulk up the seam can be enough to reinforce a tricky spot.

    A good rule of thumb- at least my thumb- is to figure about 2/3 the GE fabric rating is appropriate for a bridge. 300lb Gathered end rating= 200lb bridge rating.

    Ignoring the fact that I have a poster of Kyle hanging on my bedroom wall and carter used to sleep with me regularly before he got married; I only build my bridges with Mountain Hybrid fabric. 1.2 and 1.7 ounce weights- with a structural double layer of 1.7 on the Big Guy (350lbs plus rating). Does other stuff work- of course- but I can't really give a better recommendation or express my thoughts on fabric selection any better than to tell you what I'm willing to let go out the door.

    Continued best of luck with yer bridges!

    Last edited by Just Bill; 01-13-2022 at 15:17.

  9. #9
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    A quick note of thanks for the responses. I look forward to reading each in detail and making notes. Wendy

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Congrats on your build... and welcome to bridge builder life. The first bridge is never the right bridge and the next bridge will be the first practice round of the following bridge
    Course that sums up most DIY projects I suppose.
    HA! Yes, you are right! Never ending process of development and creation for us DIYers!

    Thanks for all the great info. I'm going through and rereading all your (and everyone else's) insight before I decide on my next version. I suspect I'll be making two new bridges as I want to keep the channel suspension for one and try sewn in webbing for the other to compare. I have four family members to outfit for our next trip so they will not go to waste!

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