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  1. #1
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    Overstuff in quilts

    Ok so here is my question. Say you order a 20 degree quilt but also request 3 oz overstuff. Is it still a 20 degree or did you just make it a 15 degree or whatever. I understand maybe over stuffing the foot box if you tend to have cold feet. But if you’re going to pay for say 3 ounces of overstuff why not just get a lower temp quilt?

  2. #2
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    This one comes up a lot. Wish the vendors would chime in on this.
    My understanding is that the extra down keeps the down from shifting as much. Thus being warmer perhaps.
    Shug

    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven

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    Appreciate the video. I’ve read several quilt manufacturers and they hit the migration thing but not temperature gain. I suppose it’s all about keeping the loft. Just seems like more down should equal more heat retention.

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    sideshowraheem's Avatar
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    So my understanding is that its less about extra warmth and more about the shifting of down and as a potential mitigation against down losing loft.
    They dont make the baffles any bigger to accommodate the extra down so it shouldnt add all that much more warmth. But supposedly, and in my experience it does, keeps down from shifting around as much.

    Also I've heard anecdotally that the extra down will help things suffer less from compression. Who knows though. I hate migrating down and shifting it around so I always opt for it.

  5. #5
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    But my question is, can too much overfill hurt instead of help. What I mean is that from my understanding is that down keeps you warm by trapping air that your body warms. Now, if you have too much overfill to the point where the down can’t trap the air it’s supposed to, then I would think it would do more harm than good. I’m guessing it’s that fine line of overfill to keep down from shifting but then going to that next temperature rating if you are not staying warm enough

  6. #6
    Senior Member Cruiser51's Avatar
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    Like anything else, there is theory and then there is reality.

    The theory is that a certain thickness of down will yield a certain heat retention or comfort temperature, for example, 2" of down is rated at 30F or -1.1C . So it is straight forward, calculate the volume of your baffle, calculate the amount of down required using the stated fill power and pack away .... unfortunately reality has a way of stepping up at this point with a few points

    - we assume that the stated FP of the down is true, which (assuming reputable dealer) is likely true in the lab it was tested in, but in the wild it is almost certainly going to be significantly less, hence the generally accepted necessity of "overstuff" practiced by almost all of the vendors (from 25% - 40%). This overstuff is different from the extra over stuff offered by most custom vendors, it is done at the fill stage, to make sure that the quilt baffle will be completely filled after being compressed and moved into the wild.
    - adding additional ounces of down will make the down "stay put" better .... once it expands, with more down it tends to fill the all space and doesn't allow any spots where there is less down or let the down shift much. It will make the quilt perform better, but since the temperature rating is based on the depth of the down and not the density, the temperature rating shouldn't change
    - if you continue adding down overstuff, you will come to a point where you start to displace the air that the down is trapping ... then you will start to lose temperature performance, where that occurs is going to be very dependent on the FP of the down, this limit is likely past the 100% point (ie double the calculated down).

    To answer the original question, the overstuff may make the quilt more comfortable and easier to setup with less need for down "fluffing/migration" but those baffles are set, so the temp rating is not going to change .... like anything else you read, take that with a grain of salt ... you may gain a bit of comfort margin, but IMO you have the right idea when you suggested buying a quilt rated for the temp range you want rather than adding overstuff, hoping to increase quilt performance past what it is designed for


    Brian

  7. #7
    Senior Member rweb82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavyhiker View Post
    But my question is, can too much overfill hurt instead of help. What I mean is that from my understanding is that down keeps you warm by trapping air that your body warms. Now, if you have too much overfill to the point where the down can’t trap the air it’s supposed to, then I would think it would do more harm than good. I’m guessing it’s that fine line of overfill to keep down from shifting but then going to that next temperature rating if you are not staying warm enough
    I don't know if too much overfill technically hurts anything, but I think there is a level of diminishing returns when it comes to adding additional down. Basically, the baffle height (amount of loft) is how you arrive at the temp. rating. Continually adding down to a 30° quilt will never make it a 20°- because it's ultimately restricted by the baffle height.

  8. #8
    DGrav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shug View Post
    This one comes up a lot. Wish the vendors would chime in on this.
    I get asked this question daily and respond with how we came up with our standard for Jacks Better of all quilts automatically come with a 25%-30% (depends on the design of the quilt) overstuff.

    We use a calculation based on the internal volume of the quilt and the fill power of the down to get the appropriate amount of down (by weight) to fill the quilt. Then we add an additional 25%-30%(depending on the quilt's design)(by weight)overstuff to all our quilts.

    It has been my experience over the past 16 years that 25%-30% overstuff is the optimum amount to accomplish two things.

    1. Reduce the amount down shifts inside the quilt
    2. Allow the quilt to maintain its temperature rating when dirt and oils between washings or dampness reduce loft

    We have tested quilts without any overstuff and they will keep you warm to the rated temp but you have to be more diligent in getting the down evenly distributed and giving it a good shaking every time you get in and out of the hammock.

    In the other direction, we tested more overstuff and saw no difference over 25%-30% overstuff until around 40% where quilts drastically lost performance. My thought is it was because there was too much down it was compressed and not allowing enough loft.

    I hope this helps and please feel free to ask any other questions.
    Jacks R Better, makers of the of the Original Under Quilt and Bear Mountain Bridge Hammock.
    www.jacksrbetter.com
    Facebook: JacksRBetterQuilts
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  9. #9
    Crawldaddy's Avatar
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    --"Allow the quilt to maintain its temperature rating when dirt and oils between washings or dampness reduce loft--"
    So my question would be, after so many proper washings, can original loft ever be restored?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crawldaddy View Post
    --"Allow the quilt to maintain its temperature rating when dirt and oils between washings or dampness reduce loft--"
    So my question would be, after so many proper washings, can original loft ever be restored?
    Ducks and geese spend their whole lives in water. Id say that's a good indication that the down can perform after a few washings.

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