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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowhike View Post
    (...)
    Just thought I might experiment with a over the top continuous ridge line but I don't know if it will be any better than what I have been using.

    So many options leave me undecided at this point.
    and neither can we (know). the good news is it's alsways easy to make several short pieces of line out of a longer piece. so try the CRL to see how you like it, play with it in different configurations, with different knots etc and see. in the worse case, if you don't like it, you can always repurpose it to do something else with it (split ridgeline, extra guylines or -- my favourite -- soft shackles

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    I agree that the Prusik is not the best knot for all materials, definitely not for zing-it/lash-it in my experience. I've also experimented with Klemheist and Hedden, and they also presented the same issue that Prusik does; if you introduce enough wraps to make it hold, it subsequently jams pretty hard under load.

    However, I've used Prusik with some non-Dyneema cords and find it works extremely well with Lawson Glowire and Guywire, and I recently tested it with Ironwire and it works extremely well. It also works well with Atwood Tactical Cord and Micro Cord (although tiny, and poor handling and tangling), and with Kelty Triptease. But IMHO the Lawson products have the best 'Goldilocks' set of attributes for the job.

    Nanok is exactly correct that if you use Zing-it for the CRL that it is far better to use some other non-Dyneema cord for the actual Prusik.

    Lawson Ironwire with Prusik:
    (...)
    yeah, i know it can work with some combinations of cord and within certain range of load etc, but everything has to be "just so". what i don't get is why so many people report trouble with the prusik (which is to be expected) but never try a blake hitch or some other decent friction hitch, but instead abandon the idea of using friction hitches (and switch to hardware because of getting frustrated with the prusik), or give up on the CRL idea altogether. giving up on using knots/hitches and concluding hardware must be the only way, based on experience using prusiks extensively, is equivalent with giving up on the idea of driving a car after trying to drive a ford model T on the highway, and concluding travel by train is the only way to go: there's nothing wrong with trains, but the decision making process is...suboptimal -- if one is going to decide to stick to trains, do it for the right reasons/properly informed. this is why i have started recently to default to replying "if you have to ask, just skip the prusik from the start", i think it saves most people a lot of trouble and frustration, and i honestly fail to find any reason in the pic above (and most other applications) to not replace the prusik with a blake (for instance). and yeah, i know i don't need to preach blakes hitch to you, iirc you're the second person on here known to use it (i have a hunch you never use it on the ridgeline though, i wonder why that is).

    so basically, all i'm saying is, if the prusik works for you then fine, but if you have to ask, then skip it and use something better from the start, and if you had trouble with it and gave up, keep in mind it was just the wrong hitch for the job.

  3. #13
    Senior Member cmoulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanok View Post
    yeah, i know it can work with some combinations of cord and within certain range of load etc, but everything has to be "just so". what i don't get is why so many people report trouble with the prusik (which is to be expected) but never try a blake hitch or some other decent friction hitch, but instead abandon the idea of using friction hitches (and switch to hardware because of getting frustrated with the prusik), or give up on the CRL idea altogether. giving up on using knots/hitches and concluding hardware must be the only way, based on experience using prusiks extensively, is equivalent with giving up on the idea of driving a car after trying to drive a ford model T on the highway, and concluding travel by train is the only way to go: there's nothing wrong with trains, but the decision making process is...suboptimal -- if one is going to decide to stick to trains, do it for the right reasons/properly informed. this is why i have started recently to default to replying "if you have to ask, just skip the prusik from the start", i think it saves most people a lot of trouble and frustration, and i honestly fail to find any reason in the pic above (and most other applications) to not replace the prusik with a blake (for instance). and yeah, i know i don't need to preach blakes hitch to you, iirc you're the second person on here known to use it (i have a hunch you never use it on the ridgeline though, i wonder why that is).

    so basically, all i'm saying is, if the prusik works for you then fine, but if you have to ask, then skip it and use something better from the start, and if you had trouble with it and gave up, keep in mind it was just the wrong hitch for the job.
    I agree completely with this perspective; I sometimes feel that folks abandon things a little (or far!) too quickly. But it isn't just knots... people seem struggle with various hardware bits and search for something better/easier, or look for some outlandish solution to a UQ problem before thoroughly addressing basic setup.

    As far as my own knot selection, these are the ones I've chosen for simplicity and for some slight, perhaps only perceived, advantage for a particular job. Prusiks have always worked great for me in the RL application when a good, knot-friendly cord is used. When I think about it, I could use the Farrimond hitch for almost every knot on my tarp, including tree connection. But the Prusiks on the RL and the Blake's hitches on the guyouts must be tied only once, so it really doesn't matter... I could just as readily tie a single-line Prusik for the tarp corner guy lines, although Blake's is easier. Farrimond would actually work quite well at the tree, but I use Midshipman's for that because I can tie it while wearing thick gloves, and probably even mittens. Farrimond's big advantage is that it's exploding, which makes take-down a touch easier. And I use the clove hitch at the stakes.

    The bottom line is, they're all stupid simple and work perfectly with the cord I'm using. People seem to fear knots, but almost everybody learned to tie a double slipped reef knot by the time they were 5 years old, and all these knots are simpler than that one!
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ~ Gen. George S Patton

  4. #14
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    I like the Farrimond hitch over Tautline hitch because I don’t have to wrap the whole leftover tail of the line. And it’s quick release.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  5. #15
    Recalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanok View Post
    and yeah, i know i don't need to preach blakes hitch to you, iirc you're the second person on here known to use it (i have a hunch you never use it on the ridgeline though, i wonder why that is).
    Card carrying member of the Blake's Hitch Preservation Society here. While not on my CRL, it can be found on my tie outs, line that goes from UQ to over the ridgeline for UQ adjustment, and tarp door closure in combo with a mitten hook.

  6. #16
    New Member BrknArrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cougarmeat View Post
    I like the Farrimond hitch over Tautline hitch because I don’t have to wrap the whole leftover tail of the line. And it’s quick release.
    Two thumbs up on this -- I will have to give this one a whirl, but it looks like a great knot to have in your arsenal.

    Thanks!

    Cheers.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    I agree completely with this perspective; I sometimes feel that folks abandon things a little (or far!) too quickly. But it isn't just knots... people seem struggle with various hardware bits and search for something better/easier, or look for some outlandish solution to a UQ problem before thoroughly addressing basic setup.
    yes, that is the more general way of putting it, i agree with you. i happen to like knots, but as i was hinting, it's not that i think everyone should like them too, it's about making informed choices, and troubleshooting before "jumping around".

    i think this phenomenon might have a lot to do with plentifulness of resources and options: when there's so much to chose from, and all of it attainable/accessible, it's kind of natural that we tend to get impatient and "try something else", instead of the more tedious approach of trying to understand how it works and how to fix it. in terms of arriving at a solution quickly, this might even make sense, but i guess i'm just too much into the "understanding" part, and endup trying (sometimes seemingly absurdly) to solve problems with limited resources, seems i'm not entirely alone in that, either. there's room for all kinds of us, thankfully, and i think that's good

    As far as my own knot selection, these are the ones I've chosen for simplicity and for some slight, perhaps only perceived, advantage for a particular job. Prusiks have always worked great for me in the RL application when a good, knot-friendly cord is used. When I think about it, I could use the Farrimond hitch for almost every knot on my tarp, including tree connection. But the Prusiks on the RL and the Blake's hitches on the guyouts must be tied only once, so it really doesn't matter... I could just as readily tie a single-line Prusik for the tarp corner guy lines, although Blake's is easier. Farrimond would actually work quite well at the tree, but I use Midshipman's for that because I can tie it while wearing thick gloves, and probably even mittens. Farrimond's big advantage is that it's exploding, which makes take-down a touch easier. And I use the clove hitch at the stakes.
    i have great respect for the midshipmans, for exactly the reason you stated, combined with the fact that it can reliably be tied under tension, which not many friction hitches can do. however i don't use it regularly, mainly as i find putting the whole length through multiple times tedious (as cougarmeat also noted, i tend to prefer something that can be tied in the bight if possible), but in large part also because this one really needs the right cordage to work, most modern synthetic lines don't work very well with it in my experience, so i tend to gravitate towards hitches which are a bit less finicky regarding the choice of cordage.

    i "invented" the softshackles i presented in some threads here specifically to solve the exploding problem: with that uni-shackle, you can both have your cake and eat it, sort of: you can have quick release, but are not forced to use an exploding hitch, instead you can use the hitch you like, so in my typical use, the blake is tied once on the ridgeline, for instance, and stays there, then you just connect the soft shackle part to what you want (ideally tree strap), and tension using the blake. when ready to go, loosen the blake (which is very easy, as it doesn't tend to jam), and then release the softshackle. the other problem with quick release/exploding hitches is that typically, after significant tension, they will require quite a bit of encouragement to release, and that vigurous negotiation tends to have effects on the rope as well, after a while.

    the blake is really hard to beat, when you can arrange so that you don't have to tie it again at each setup. the only one i found better so far is the VT (but it's also less compact, and a bit trickier on initial setup). i have one more i'm planning to test, which might be the best of both worlds (blake and VT), but we shall see (it's the knut, not very well known, but quite interesting)

    The bottom line is, they're all stupid simple and work perfectly with the cord I'm using. People seem to fear knots, but almost everybody learned to tie a double slipped reef knot by the time they were 5 years old, and all these knots are simpler than that one!
    i personally don't even really understand the division "knots vs hardware", it truly intrigues me. if you use rope of any kind, generally speaking you'll have to deal with some sort of knots to 1. do something useful with it and 2.get an understanding of how rope works, what to expect of it and how to use it safely (train your brain in rope-matters, so to speak). thinking of using a piece of hardware like the dutch bling or the loop alien and such as "doing away with knots" is a bit silly, i mean, how many times can you say out loud "see, no knots" while wrapping the cord around a loop alien to secure it (which amounts to tieing a hitch, generally speaking a knot -- although knot people will shoot me for saying such). i think the variety of solutions available is wonderful, but knot-fobia is a bit silly and mostly misguided, perhaps a bit like wanting to go on kayak adventures but requiring to not have any contact with water.

    and yeah, many knots are simpler than the double slipped reef knot, and we have plenty of evidence to support that: more than half of us actually tie that wrong, and endup with a double slipped granny knot (which doesn't really work for long, and ends up coming untied), the reasons why that is are interesting in themselves (but i sidetracked this discussion plenty already, so will not go there), but most people don't even realize there's a difference at all (i was one of them until not so long ago, when i did some research on the topic, can't even recall why).

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recalc View Post
    Card carrying member of the Blake's Hitch Preservation Society here. While not on my CRL, it can be found on my tie outs, line that goes from UQ to over the ridgeline for UQ adjustment, and tarp door closure in combo with a mitten hook.
    right, i'm adding you to the list. we are 3! we're taking over the world! okay, maybe not yet.

    if you try to tie it like i showed on your crl, as a single line softshackle (i called it a uni-shackle because of that), you'll never go back, as you'll have a non-jammy hitch, and an integrated quick release shackle (more like a soft binner). similarly, try the uni-shackle with the added "tending loop" and the blake hitch, for the tieouts: you get soft binner connection to the tieouts (if you'll want to swap guylines between tarps, or move them to other tieouts quickly in the field etc, if not they just stay there), you get the blake you love, but with added "one hand operation" for both tensioning and loosening the guylines. you might not need it to be that nifty, but when you show it to your friends in camp, they shall abandon their plastic tensioners which mostly don't work, and they too shall join in the worship and adoration of the mighty blake (and you shall be their priest, not a bad position to be in)

    joke aside, it works really well, if you like the blake this makes it even more likeable (imho)

  9. #19
    slowhike's Avatar
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    Glad you boys are feeling superior to those that choose hardware over knots but I've been at this awhile.

    I was one of the founding members of Hammock Forums (2006 I believe) and the 1st moderator that Just Jeff brought on.
    For the first year or two I read every single post and made lots of replies.
    As Hammock Forums continued to grow, I tried to keep up by scanning posts.

    After awhile I asked Jeff to consider some other members that I thought would be good at moderating.
    And he brought more on.

    A few years back I had become burned out and stepped away from moderating.

    I couldn't begin to tell you all the hardware, knots, fabrics, etc.
    and I don't care to try to learn them all.

    That's why I humbly ask the opinions of those that have stayed current with what I am considering.

    I've tried a lot of things, had ideas that stuck and contributed quite a bit to the hammock community.

    So, I been most satisfied with webbing and some hardware.
    For a long time now I've been using climber rings on my webbing and for the most part I find it simple and functional.

    Now I'm going to revisit the new types of buckles that are in use.

    Thank you.
    Tim/ slowhike
    I too will something make and joy in it's making

  10. #20
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    Great minds think alike
    Well, more or less…
    Different ideas, we share, make it fun, wether we adopt them or shake our heads and laugh

    Many of these knots and hitches can be modified to our advantage

    Blake’s Hitch can have extra wraps and also the last step can be slipped. If it works for you, maybe easier and faster to undo

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