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  1. #31
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    Field update: we had a ~60lb Yeti soft cooler with frozen meat to hang and I had a 50' length of 7/64 amsteel as bear cord, same length in lashit and someone else had a boat load of 550 paracord. We tried the skillman method @cmoulder mentioned but with our available cordage (no straps) could not get sufficient friction over the branch. Figure-eight knots on amsteel didn't seem to help either.

    Regardless, the skillman method merely helps for leverage and with a couple of marlin spike hitches in the rope we ditched the rings and just pulled it up. Interestingly enough, once we got it up even 10-12 wraps of the amsteel around a relatively rough-bark tree didn't prevent slippage. What we ended up doing the first night was tie on some of the paracord and even 3-4 wraps of that stuff was enough to secure it safely.

    I thought about this some more the next day on how it could be done without the paracord tail and what we came up with was to wrap an amsteel dogbone giving us a fixed loop on the tree and then tied a series of alpine butterfly midline loops, one of which precisely located where it would meet the dogbone loop on the tree and where we wanted the Yeti in suspension. All that was needed was to pull the line, line up the loops and stick a toggle in. The other alpine loops served as slips for 2+ toggles for the pullers (MSH got pretty tight with such weight). In the end I think the system worked well enough that even the least experienced of our party was able to rig and unrig it.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by uninjured View Post
    Field update: we had a ~60lb Yeti soft cooler with frozen meat to hang and I had a 50' length of 7/64 amsteel as bear cord, same length in lashit and someone else had a boat load of 550 paracord. We tried the skillman method @cmoulder mentioned but with our available cordage (no straps) could not get sufficient friction over the branch. Figure-eight knots on amsteel didn't seem to help either.
    thanks for the update, this is quite interesting. keeping in mind that the friction on the branch only needs to be more than the friction on the "pulleys" (the running parts of the rigging, i take it rings in your case), it might be that the rings were not smooth enough, or maybe too thin compared to the rope? the other factor which affects friction significantly is deflection through the running part (unless using proper pulleys on bearings, where deflection basically doesn't matter), so by having less deflection of the rope, one might be able to get significantly less friction in the rings (and, conversely, more deflection on the branch will mean more friction there).

    theory is all nice and good, but i'm intrigued enough i think i'll have to try it (although on this side of the world, bearbagging is, sadly, completely pointless, as the dominant big monkeys here killed all the bears )

    Regardless, the skillman method merely helps for leverage and with a couple of marlin spike hitches in the rope we ditched the rings and just pulled it up. Interestingly enough, once we got it up even 10-12 wraps of the amsteel around a relatively rough-bark tree didn't prevent slippage. What we ended up doing the first night was tie on some of the paracord and even 3-4 wraps of that stuff was enough to secure it safely.
    yeah, i'm not a fan of wrap a lot methods, but it's interesting it didn't work with dyneema, i guess expected, but still. nice problem solving anyway, you figured out a way on the spot

    I thought about this some more the next day on how it could be done without the paracord tail and what we came up with was to wrap an amsteel dogbone giving us a fixed loop on the tree and then tied a series of alpine butterfly midline loops, one of which precisely located where it would meet the dogbone loop on the tree and where we wanted the Yeti in suspension. All that was needed was to pull the line, line up the loops and stick a toggle in. The other alpine loops served as slips for 2+ toggles for the pullers (MSH got pretty tight with such weight). In the end I think the system worked well enough that even the least experienced of our party was able to rig and unrig it.
    yes, having a separate loop around the tree is exactly what i would suggest, nice solution. it is starting to look kind of similar to what i was suggesting (or headed there, at least). i like the idea with the alpine buterfly and the toggle, nice ad-hoc engineering

    for what it's worth, a less "fancy" way of doing something similar, if you don't have a dogbone and don't want to make one out of something, could be to wrap the remaining rope around the tree in an alternating way (so turn around the loaded rope and go around the tree the opposite way, at each turn), this will effectively create a collar, which distributes the load on the tree across multiple strands, and i think will be less likely to slip even in dyneema. it is basically a simple lashing. it is tedious though, and it requires quite a bit of line to be available (which should be no problem in this case, as you hoisted up something up a tree with that rope, but it also depends on how big the tree trunk is); it also might be a bit tricky to do with a heavily loaded line, if you say it was slipping even after many turns. i think the only advantages it has is that it requires no extra bits aside from the bear line you already have, and it distributes the load on the tree better, but your solution is much faster and more elegant imho (i only mention this alternative in case you're caught without a better way, some day, i like your idea better)

  3. #33
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    A bit off topic, but similar to title of original post

    I try to get tight tarp ridgeline, after trying several ways, I use a hitch! Tensionless hitch—I pull tarp ridgeline along side of tree, keeping tight tension, I walk around tree several times. Then I tie a half hitch followed by a slipped half hitch. Then I finish with a daisy chain aka monkey braid.

    The tarp ridgeline is tight. Almost as tight as any hardware assisted tarp ridgeline.

    Cons: time consuming, and used lots of zingit
    If any adjustment is needed—gotta do it
    all again

    Pros: does not slip—holds its tightness
    and does not jam—always comes undone
    easily with a yank of ripcord
    No small parts to lose or buy

  4. #34
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    Sorry for the delay in my response. @nanok: I think your collar method is worth a shot next time just to see.

    I also managed to snag 50' of Lawson Equipment Ultraglid Bear Line which arrived yesterday. It's a smaller diameter than the 7/64" amsteel and the texture feels kind of in-between dyneema and the glowire I have - definitely seems to hold knots *much* better than the amsteel I was using. In light of this, I think I'm hopeful that this line should be able to get more purchase on a tree trunk. If not, then either the collar method or the alpine butterfly loops it is.

    Also, we did end up hanging the **** bear barrel again as my buddies claimed it isn't a bear canister/barrel but just a simple portage canister. I attached a pic of what it looks like and doing some googling it's a bit unclear if it is bear proof?

    @Phantom Grappler do you think that method would work for a high tensioned lashing? From the 20' of amsteel I had left after the hang and even wrapping it 10+ times around a barky tree it still wanted to slip. Fwiw, for my new glowire tarp CRL I found that it frayed a bit when I used a truckers hitch around a tree so I ended up using an amsteel dogbone around the tree (like a strap) then using a loop in that to affix the trucker's hitch: no slippage on the tree and certainly much less fraying on my beloved glowire.

    Bear%u00252Bresistant%u00252Bbarrels%u00252Bwith%u00252Bharness.JPG

  5. #35
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    Uninjured, those are some hefty barrels.

    I cannot guarantee results, even with loud prayers to the almighty, and questioning the ropes familial lineage.

    Multiple wraps around tree followed with a tie off is a “tensionless hitch”.
    A variation is several wraps around tree and then reversing direction by crossing over standing part of rope as it meets tree. Then several wraps in opposite direction.

    Finish tensionless hitch with a half hitch around rope as it meets or leaves tree. After half hitch add a slipped half hitch or two and finish last bight with a daisy chain or monkey braid.

    Or
    Wrap a rope or strap around tree at least twice maybe three times. Tie your rope to both ends of strap together. This will choke up on the tree and resist sliding up the tree.
    Easiest if strap has end loops on both ends, If only one end, make an end loop with alpine butterfly loop or double overhand knot.

    You guys must be chowing down—gotta be lotta food in barrels.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by uninjured View Post
    Sorry for the delay in my response. @nanok: I think your collar method is worth a shot next time just to see.

    I also managed to snag 50' of Lawson Equipment Ultraglid Bear Line which arrived yesterday. It's a smaller diameter than the 7/64" amsteel and the texture feels kind of in-between dyneema and the glowire I have - definitely seems to hold knots *much* better than the amsteel I was using. In light of this, I think I'm hopeful that this line should be able to get more purchase on a tree trunk. If not, then either the collar method or the alpine butterfly loops it is.

    Also, we did end up hanging the **** bear barrel again as my buddies claimed it isn't a bear canister/barrel but just a simple portage canister. I attached a pic of what it looks like and doing some googling it's a bit unclear if it is bear proof?

    @Phantom Grappler do you think that method would work for a high tensioned lashing? From the 20' of amsteel I had left after the hang and even wrapping it 10+ times around a barky tree it still wanted to slip. Fwiw, for my new glowire tarp CRL I found that it frayed a bit when I used a truckers hitch around a tree so I ended up using an amsteel dogbone around the tree (like a strap) then using a loop in that to affix the trucker's hitch: no slippage on the tree and certainly much less fraying on my beloved glowire.

    Bear%u00252Bresistant%u00252Bbarrels%u00252Bwith%u00252Bharness.JPG
    Those barrel packs are definitely NOT bear cannisters. I'm assuming this was a canoe trip(?)

    What I've typically done for trips to the BWCAW and Quetico Provincial Park is to use a two rope system using cordage a LOT heavier than the stuff used by backpackers. Afterall, we're talking serious food weight here, not freeze-dried and dehydrated fare and you want cordage you can get a grip on. One rope has a pulley (almost a necessity for this much weight) on one end and goes up and over a branch. The other rope goes through the pulley and is hooked to the food pack. Raise the pulley up and secure the rope. It takes a bit of practice to determine how high to raise the pulley. Then pull on the other rope, raising the food pack. Sure, you can wrap that around a tree but, better yet, have webbing around the tree with something like a Nite Ize Cam Jam to secure the lifting rope. Easier on you and easier on the trees.

    (Edit)
    Looking back over this thread, I see that most of what I wrote had been said before. The Cam Jam though DOES make a difference.
    Last edited by TominMN; 09-09-2021 at 21:40.

  7. #37
    Senior Member cmoulder's Avatar
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    For *that* I'd use some 6mm climbing utility rope and a small climbing pulley. Clearly, you're not quibbling over grams in this scenario!
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    For *that* I'd use some 6mm climbing utility rope and a small climbing pulley. Clearly, you're not quibbling over grams in this scenario!
    Precisely what's in the gear pack.

  9. #39
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    i think this thread is a very interesting (and useful) discussion, but the title might be a bit confusing. would it make sense for a moderator to edit the title and maybe just add "bearbagging" or something like that in brackets? (assuming uninjured agrees to such surgery)

    thanks for the great discussion in any case

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