Tarp Continuous Ridge Line Using Webbing

[Walker]

Does anyone have experience using webbing, instead of rope, for a continuous ridge line for their tarp? I've always used two straps to tie to the trees from each of the ridge line tie out points on my tarp. The reason I use webbing instead of rope is to prevent damaging the tree bark. I know people say it doesn't damage the bark to use rope, but I'm not in that camp. I am thinking about having the ridge line above the tarp. I would be concerned if it was under the tarp that water would run down the straps and under the tarp.

I would like to try a continuous ridge line with something like the 1" hybrid dyneema/polyester webbing from Myers Tech Hammock Lab on Ebay. If using prusiks, maybe a thicker rope like amsteel 1/8" or 1/4" might work, but I'm concerned it either won't stay in place, or will be unreasonably difficult to slide. I've looked through Dutchware Gear's hardware, but I don't think any of their stuff would work with webbing. Maybe there is a buckle of some kind that could be installed on the webbing and then attached to the tarp with a soft shackle or carabiner?

[Phantom Grappler]

A heavy, bulky suspension would be prohibitive for backpacking long miles. But can work ok for car camping.

I get the most fun from trying new hammock and tarp suspensions. If it does the job of suspending your tarp and hammock—it works.

If not, back to the drawing board!

That said, our beloved cottage vendors sell many ready made hammock and tarp suspensions. They have already researched, calculated, made prototypes, field tested, beta tested, and marketed their products.

No reason to reinvent the wheel, unless you want to see where your creativity takes you. Nothing wrong with having fun, making your own signature suspension.

I used to have a 1/8 inch amsteel continuous tarp ridgeline. Recently I’ve stopped using 1/8 amsteel for tarp ridgeline and now use 2.2 Zingit for tarp ridgeline. I even use 2.2 Zingit six wrap prusiks on 2.2 Zingit tarp ridgeline. I’ve installed pull loops integrated into prusiks to make adjusting prusiks easy peasy.

Jeff Myers of Myers Tech has a video on YouTube showing pull loop installation combined with prusik loops. It works similar to a Bachman Hitch—just no hardware!

Trees are tougher than they look. Trees in forest can withstand tarp ridgelines made of Zingit-for occasional use.
But trees in heavily used campgrounds with numbered sites might show some wear and tear from Zingit tarp suspensions—-but those same campgrounds have trees that are already heavily wounded by axes wielded by kids and stupid adults—so those trees will croak from axes way before Zingit can do anything.

Actually soil compaction from foot traffic and vehicular traffic might pose a greater risk to trees in commercial camp grounds.

Good luck!

[cougarmeat]

Walker, I see this is your first post - Welcome to the forum. You might have missed something in reading the threads - For Hammocks, we often use webbing AROUND the tree and connect smaller line to that. If you are in a commercial campsite - the “rules” vary around the country and are enforced in various degrees by Camp Hosts. Sometimes they have rules that were put in place on one side of country but apply to all campsites. For example, our Ponderosa Pines have bark and roots a little different from Aspen. The goal is to keep the Camp Host happy. If he/she sees that you are not using bark cutting line (even if the bark would more likely cut the line than the other way around), not hammering nails in trees, etc. then they might “make allowances”. Without webbing straps, you could put vertical sticks between the line and the tree. Various HAMMOCK suspensions use that webbing itself or is connected to line (like with Whoopie slings).

But the weight/pull of a tarp is much, much less. So we can use much smaller/lighter/less bulkier line for that. Though the UL (UltraLight) group favors the smallest/lightest (1.75mm), some prefer up to 3mm cord because it is easier to handle (with cold wet hands). I think a lot has to do with the bark on the type of trees you are working with. For example, though a ZingIt type cord will hold hundreds of pounds, I’m guessing it cuts easily under tension. And some of the PNW (Pacific North West) trees have cut-your-finger sharp bark. So you have to pay attention and know it is all compromise; a combination of weight/bulk/ease/robustness.

[nanok]

welcome to the forums

i agree with your concern in regards to potential damage to trees, as i've stated several times on here (not much of a popular opinion as you can see ). but you don't need to make the entire ridgeline out of webbing, just use the treestraps that your hammock is suspended to (i described this a while ago in a thread called "the levitating tarp" or something of that sort; edit: here).

this way you get the full protection for the trees, and you also save line you would have to otherwise wrap around the tree just for the tarp, and save a lot of trouble (i just connect my tarp ridgeline to the treestrap with a softshackle on each side, and then pull the ridgeline through the tensioners to adjust tension, it litterally takes seconds)

edit: <sigh> and i failed to answer your question (sorry, should have coffee first, answer after)

to your question: prusiks themselves are the wrong tool for the job even on rope, imo. rope on webbing, they will be quite a pain (they will hold fine, but they will be terribly jammy). for attaching the ridgeline to "normal" treestraps (before i redesigned the treestraps too), i was using a piece of paracord or equivalent, with either a one wrap klemheist or even a larkshead (so one wrap prusik you might say). i preferred the klemheist (although i don't use it for anything else), thin (3-4mm) rope on webbing will work very nicely. now, if you'll be using ultralight dyneema webbing, that might be a different story. if it proves to be too slippery, you can always use a blake hitch, or a valdotain tressee (that is to say, proper friction hitches, not prusik :P ). i would still advise to consider hooking on directly to the treestraps (so reusing the hammock suspension treestraps tosupport the tarp too), and using a "normal" ridgeline, as i noted above.

[Walker]

welcome to the forums

i agree with your concern in regards to potential damage to trees, as i've stated several times on here (not much of a popular opinion as you can see ). but you don't need to make the entire ridgeline out of webbing, just use the treestraps that your hammock is suspended to (i described this a while ago in a thread called "the levitating tarp" or something of that sort; edit: here).

this way you get the full protection for the trees, and you also save line you would have to otherwise wrap around the tree just for the tarp, and save a lot of trouble (i just connect my tarp ridgeline to the treestrap with a softshackle on each side, and then pull the ridgeline through the tensioners to adjust tension, it litterally takes seconds)

edit: <sigh> and i failed to answer your question (sorry, should have coffee first, answer after)

to your question: prusiks themselves are the wrong tool for the job even on rope, imo. rope on webbing, they will be quite a pain (they will hold fine, but they will be terribly jammy). for attaching the ridgeline to "normal" treestraps (before i redesigned the treestraps too), i was using a piece of paracord or equivalent, with either a one wrap klemheist or even a larkshead (so one wrap prusik you might say). i preferred the klemheist (although i don't use it for anything else), thin (3-4mm) rope on webbing will work very nicely. now, if you'll be using ultralight dyneema webbing, that might be a different story. if it proves to be too slippery, you can always use a blake hitch, or a valdotain tressee (that is to say, proper friction hitches, not prusik :P ). i would still advise to consider hooking on directly to the treestraps (so reusing the hammock suspension treestraps tosupport the tarp too), and using a "normal" ridgeline, as i noted above.

Thanks for the information and linking your other post. This levitating tarp setup using the hammock straps sounds promising. Do you have any pictures of your ridgline attached to your webbing? I watched your videos and looked through the post, but couldn't find a clear example. The one video showing how to move the tarp closer is too dark for me to see the setup. I see you say you are using the valdotain tressee, but I cannot picture how the setup would look. Are you attached to the part of the straps that go around the tree or the part that goes from the tree to the hammock? I'm guessing it's the latter. How wide are your straps?

In your second video, what is the knot(?) you have on your ridgeline with the white rope? Is that the valdotain tressee?

[nanok]

Thanks for the information and linking your other post. This levitating tarp setup using the hammock straps sounds promising. Do you have any pictures of your ridgline attached to your webbing? I watched your videos and looked through the post, but couldn't find a clear example.

you are right, i didn't document that at the time, and as nobody seemed keen to try it i forgot. in the meantime i moved on and redesigned the tree straps so they work much better for this setup, but it can still be done easily with "classic" treestraps.

for now let me explain briefly how the initial setup worked: on the ridgeline, there was this white softshackle i designed to use with the valdotain tresse (yes, you are correct below, the hitch the white soft shackle makes is the VT indeed). on the treestrap, there is a small loop of paracord that is hitched on to the webbing with a friction hitch, because it's rope on webbing, you don't need much, a klemheist, even a larkshead works on some webbing. you slide this on the webbing after setting the treestrap on the tree, so that it is as close to the tree as possible (in fact i usually slide it until it is on a part of webbing which is on the tree), then you put the button knot of the shackle through the loop left hanging, and close it on itself, in the middle button hole. when you tension the ridgeline, it will just pull the treestrap tight on the tree, so everything will stay put.

now, the VT works really nicely and i like it a lot, but it's a bit tricky to tie it to the ridgeline (although you only tie it once), and it's not so compact.

a simpler solution maybe, which i've been playing with lately and also works very nicely, is to use this "uni-shackle" i came up with and documented in another thread: the difference is this uni shackle has just a simple tail at one end (single line, hence the uni-name), which is great to tie a blake hitch (or farrimond if you preffer), the blake is a bit easier to tie, and easier to "understand", it's also more compact.

The one video showing how to move the tarp closer is too dark for me to see the setup. I see you say you are using the valdotain tressee, but I cannot picture how the setup would look. Are you attached to the part of the straps that go around the tree or the part that goes from the tree to the hammock? I'm guessing it's the latter. How wide are your straps?

In your second video, what is the knot(?) you have on your ridgeline with the white rope? Is that the valdotain tressee?

that video is way too dark indeed, i only had my phone, it was getting dark, and my phone sucks at that. i only posted it as people were asking how can i possibly bring the tarp low when it's attached so high. i should re-shoot a better one anyway, apologies for the pain of looking at that dark noisy mess.

the straps i use are one inch (25mm) wide, and they are either climbing rated tubular webbing (so quite thick and strong), or some dyneema webbing i picked up at some point (but i don't use the dyneema ones so often. they are so white and i feel bad about getting them dirty :P ). this setup works with both.

the trick with both the VT and the blake (any firction hitch used for tensioning really) is to include some sort of "tending loop" (or mending loop maybe more accurate, do a search for "prusik mending pulley" to see what i mean, it's used in rescue systems). honestly, the only real "innovation" i came up with is including this little loop, but it makes the difference between "a pain to deal with knots" and "smooth easy and one-hand operation, as good as the best hardware solutions". all the knots and such are well known (butterfly loop, ashley or modified ashley stopper, blake hitch or vt or farrimond), just put them together, add a mending loop, and magic happens.

the new design of tree straps i've been using lately i have yet to document (it takes a bit of work as i'd like to do a proper job of it, for a change), and it makes everything a lot simpler, lighter and stronger (yeah, i know it sounds like a pathetic sales pitch, but they really do). the good news is that you can turn basically any tree huggers into this new design, so you don't need to buy anything new (well, some dyneema soft shackles always come in handy, but those we make )

this is how the VT works for the tarp tieout (and you can see clearly the tending loop too), it's similar with the blake:


in this thread, i show how to rig the uni-shackle i mentioned as a guyline tensioner using the blake hitch, complete with the tending loop. it works exactly the same for the ridgeline tensioner, except you connect the shackle at the treestrap instead of the tarp tieout (or, if you're using a split ridgeline instead of continuous ridgeline, you connect it at the tieout, so it's indeed exactly the same)
uni-shackle blake tensioner thread

just for reference, this is the thread with the original no-hardware tensioner, based on the VT, from which the short video above comes: VT line tensioner thread

(yeah, i know, i've been playing with a lot of stuff, and there's much more to come. i blame it one the lockdowns :P )

[Walker]

you are right, i didn't document that at the time, and as nobody seemed keen to try it i forgot. in the meantime i moved on and redesigned the tree straps so they work much better for this setup, but it can still be done easily with "classic" treestraps.

I'm very keen to try this out. I'd also like to see the modified tree straps. Is that what you were showing in the video on the second page of the VT line tensioner thread?

I'm not going to lie I don't completely understand how this system is put together. It would be really helpful to see a video showing the tree, hammock, tarp, and all the rigging and how to tie/setup everything from scratch. Or at least a good set of pictures of everything that is all set up together. I know that's a lot of work though. It will take me a while to go through the threads and put all the pieces together otherwise, but I will try. My setup has always been as basic as it gets, and maybe I'm not the sharpest light bulb in the shed, so it's hard to visualize this from written description.

The tensioning in the video looks very easy like you described. I'm just not sure where the blue, black and green lines fit in with the hammock straps or which one is supposed to represent a ridge line.

[nanok]

I'm very keen to try this out. I'd also like to see the modified tree straps. Is that what you were showing in the video on the second page of the VT line tensioner thread?

I'm not going to lie I don't completely understand how this system is put together. It would be really helpful to see a video showing the tree, hammock, tarp, and all the rigging and how to tie/setup everything from scratch. Or at least a good set of pictures of everything that is all set up together. I know that's a lot of work though. It will take me a while to go through the threads and put all the pieces together otherwise, but I will try. My setup has always been as basic as it gets, and maybe I'm not the sharpest light bulb in the shed, so it's hard to visualize this from written description.

you are absolutely correct that it is needed, and it's a bit of work i should get to. you cannot really figure "all" (big word) out from the threads, because honestly there's a lot i haven't documented at all yet. but i did document bits and pieces which i thought could be taken "on their own" and people here could find their own uses for.

i don't think it's possible to visualize the entire thing even if i had written it all down (which i haven't yet), hell, i would get lost trying that even if i had written it. cause, truth is, i have changed (significantly enough to make it foreign and in need of explanation): tree straps, ridgeline attachement, hammock attachement, hammock suspension, tarp and ridgeline tensioners, softshackles for the gathered ends of the hammock, and for the treestraps. uuh. the hammock is still a rectangular piece of fabric (for now). the tarp itself is next, starting with the tieouts. yeah, i have a problem.

the "improved treestraps" featuring in that video were the first version, they worked, but i abandoned that design since, as it was too fidly to use, i thought. the new one is a lot nicer. i will try if i can go out tomorrow and at least take some pics, but i will really need to do this properly and also draw some simple diagrams (ultimate hang style, i'm a big fan of his illustration skills, if i could do something half as decent, it would be amazing..)

The tensioning in the video looks very easy like you described. I'm just not sure where the blue, black and green lines fit in with the hammock straps or which one is supposed to represent a ridge line.

the ridgeline would be the blue line, the grey is the VT hitch, the green is the "mending loop" (i don't know what to call it) -- you can see how it takes all tension off the friction hitch, which is what allows it to slide quite freely and without further intervention (hence only one hand needed). the treestrap would be where the tarp corner is, but the method to attach to the treestrap is not pictured there.

i'll try tomorrow to document the new treehuggers, and also take some quick pics of how to use "normal' tree huggers (so that you can test the idea first and see if you like it on its own, before having to re-rig a whole bunch of other things)

[Walker]

Jeff Myers of Myers Tech has a video on YouTube showing pull loop installation combined with prusik loops. It works similar to a Bachman Hitch—just no hardware!

That's a great tip! Thanks

[Walker]

the ridgeline would be the blue line, the grey is the VT hitch, the green is the "mending loop" (i don't know what to call it) -- you can see how it takes all tension off the friction hitch, which is what allows it to slide quite freely and without further intervention (hence only one hand needed). the treestrap would be where the tarp corner is, but the method to attach to the treestrap is not pictured there.

I see! That explanation helps. I think I have a good idea of how I could implement this. Definitely look forward to whatever pictures you can provide. With the initial paracord tension knot pushed all the way up to the tree are you able to eliminate the issue of hammock sway moving your ridgeline and therefore pulling on your guylines? That's the only potential downside I can see to this setup. But I imagine with that knot pushed up tight to the tree it might not be an issue. I use the EVO loop/shackles from Myers Tech on my straps at the tree so I think I could potentially get the paracord tension knot up high enough to the point it's touching the tree and not moving when the hammock sways.