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  1. #1
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    What am I doing wrong??

    So, I decided to try using a CRL again. While I was at it, I replaced my tie outs with zing it. I had been using 1.8mm paracord with shock cord tensioners. I figured that, with a DCF tarp, I could get rid of the shock cord weight by using zing it.

    First morning, the tarp was a lot floppier than I’d had it the night before. I figured the zing-it prusiks had slipped. So the next night, I wrapped them 4-5 times (as many as I had room for).

    Second morning, the tarp was still floppy. For night #3, I chopped off the excess line (35ft was way too long) and made another split ridgeline with no hardware. Woke up the next morning, and it had STILL gotten floppy. When I say ‘floppy,’ I mean that by morning, my trekking poles would move around in porch mode whenever a breeze hit the tarp.

    So what gives? I didn’t think zing-it and DCF were supposed to stretch - not that much, at least! The only thing that I see creating that much stretch is the grosgrain loops that the D-rings are sewn to. If it’s not something I’m doing wrong, then I’ll just have to add the shock cord back.

  2. #2
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
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    Are the poles slipping on the ground (if placed handle-down)?

    How much slope to the "roof" in porch mode? If you don't have much angle I'm not sure it will ever be very taut. And the lines coming down to the stakes from the poles...give them a good 45° instead of a sharp angle straight to the ground if you're doing that.

    This is one thing I didn't like about my DCF tarp. Since there was no stretch to begin with, there wasn't much natural tension to hold it from the start. At least not enough for my liking.

  3. #3
    DocTheo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmberG View Post
    So, I decided to try using a CRL again. While I was at it, I replaced my tie outs with zing it. I had been using 1.8mm paracord with shock cord tensioners. I figured that, with a DCF tarp, I could get rid of the shock cord weight by using zing it.

    First morning, the tarp was a lot floppier than I’d had it the night before. I figured the zing-it prusiks had slipped. So the next night, I wrapped them 4-5 times (as many as I had room for).

    Second morning, the tarp was still floppy. For night #3, I chopped off the excess line (35ft was way too long) and made another split ridgeline with no hardware. Woke up the next morning, and it had STILL gotten floppy. When I say ‘floppy,’ I mean that by morning, my trekking poles would move around in porch mode whenever a breeze hit the tarp.

    So what gives? I didn’t think zing-it and DCF were supposed to stretch - not that much, at least! The only thing that I see creating that much stretch is the grosgrain loops that the D-rings are sewn to. If it’s not something I’m doing wrong, then I’ll just have to add the shock cord back.
    I have not found zing-it to stretch - but I have found that due to the coating, no matter what knot I’m using, whether it’s a prussik on the line or a knot in the line itself, any knot with any significant tension on a zing-it line will slip. That’s just my experience with it; others’ mileage may vary. I tend to use zing-it with either locking hardware or with constrictor loops and locked brummels for that reason.
    Medical professional, semi-professional Scouter, aspiring layabout.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Rolloff's Avatar
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    When using Zing-it for tarp tie-outs i always make the prussiks out of braided mason line just for this reason. Its not coated and it should break certainly before the Zing-it and hopefully before the tarp tears as well.
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  5. #5
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    doc's right, dyneema on dyneema is difficult to not slip especially with same diameter. especially with prusiks (instead of proper friction hitches :P ). first thing i'd advise: if you want to play with zing-it tieouts and ridgeline (though see below), replace the line used for the friction hitch with the 1.8mm paracord you mentioned. it will work much better (even with a prusik), but why not try something else while you're at it. try the blake hitch i mentioned before, or the VT i mentioned even beforer (is that a word?). even the farrimond hitch will work better (it is based on the prusik, but it's considerably better in my experience, mainly because it is not symmetrical, which is what you want here)

    oneclick makes a point which is not at all obvious at first: low stretch actually means an unreliable pitch. the trend to remove all stretch from tarp setups is a very strange thing, i find. if you manage to remove basically all stretch, as you did (zing it + dcf), the result is that, if anything moves even a few mm (uhem, tenths of an inch?), the tension in the system drops dramatically. now, when you have some stretch, movement will be allowed without abrupt drop in tension. this is important even if the anchors are bomb proof, as it helps with handling wind load too. i personally don't like shock cord at all, i prefer 2mm paracord as you mentioned, or similar, the weight penalty is insignificant, and it works much better with knots and friction hitches, and it stretches "a reasonable amount"). btw, "the weight advantage of dyneema is insignificant" might sound like blasphemy, but remember i'm talking "for same diameter", dyneema is mindblowing in terms of weight when you compare working load. but in our case, the 100lbs/50kg or so the 2mm paracord can handle, is more than enough for a tarp, so comparng diameter to diameter makes sense here, as you simply don't need the strength of the 2mm dyneema for a tarp.

    i love dyneema, there, i said it. but i have yet to find a reason to use it for tarp tieouts and ridgeline. in fact, it is problematic for that role, and typically requires workarounds like shock cord and such. for a hammock structural ridgeline, for instance, it's great, as the lack of stretch makes it more reliable.

    which reminds me: ok, there's one reason i thought of, which makes me feel "good" about a dyneema ridgeline above my head: if something falls from the top, branch or such, a dyneema SRL will have at least a chance to take most of the kinetic energy, if not stop it alltogether. thin paracord, might not even be noticeable. but that's a bit silly, as you'd also have to hope the branch falls "reasonably": roughly perpendicular to the ridgeline, and mostly in a horizontal plane, when it hits. and i haven't met that many reasonable freefalling branches.

    i might be missing something, i'm genuinely curious if there's some reason or configuration in which dyneema makes more sense (the experience/experimentation collectively gathered on this forum is incomparably greater than everything i can think of myself, not to mention the punny experience i might have)

  6. #6
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    Maybe your trees are thin and when you get in your hammock they move in a bit thus making your tarp floppy.....
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  7. #7
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    I wouldn't use prusiks on my guylines. Just tie a marlin spike hitch onto the stake - will not slip. Easy peezy.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  8. #8
    ObdewlaX's Avatar
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    Get some Lawson cordage & ditch the Zing-it. Shug's thought is a good one... if you happened to have used trees that are small in diameter, when you climb in the hammock, the weight can draw the trees towards one another creating some sag.

    I like using a Trucker's Hitch on my CRL & guy lines. It's an easy & quick knot to tie & gives you effective 3:1 tightening advantage to get things taught.
    Last edited by ObdewlaX; 05-03-2021 at 19:44.

  9. #9
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    When zingit is new, it might take time until slick coating wears off (if there ever was a slick coating)
    I use 1.2 zingit for tarp lines and prusiks.
    Usually have a five or six wrap prusik—that is ten or twelve coils.
    After adjusting tension.
    I horseshoe the line that is enclosed by the prusik.
    Tighten the line several ways.
    After turning line in a horseshoe or a Uturn
    I compact the coils toward bottom of U by pushing coils—while pulling hard both top ends of the U in one direction and while pulling prusik loop hard in opposite direction. I’m careful to pull hard the prusik loop but not the tarp tie out it is connected to.

    This leaves the line, enclosed by prusik, bent in a U shape. Although it can loosen and slide when windy—it’s highly unlikely to loosen or slide on tarp line.

    Below is NOT how I tighten prusik
    Three wraps only——weak
    Tighten with an easy pull at 90* angle to tarp line

    Good luck knot people!

  10. #10
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    What am I doing wrong??

    Also now, all my prusiks have a pull loop incorporated into prusik wrap.
    The pull loop is also 1.2 zingit.
    Place edge of pull loop or continuous loop touching tarp line in one place. Tie prusik loop around both tarp line and pull loop. The pull loop EASILY adjusts a tight prusik in either direction along tarp line.
    For a video of this pull loop—that makes adjusting prusiks so easy.
    Search Jeff Myers of Myers Tech YouTube.
    I don’t remember name of that video. And that video might have several items of interest other than prusik loop pull handle.
    His video is easier than my words to understand.

    I changed all my tarp prusik loops to prusik loops with pull handles.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by Phantom Grappler; 05-03-2021 at 21:32.

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