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  1. #11
    Senior Member sparky32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWatson View Post
    Check out Sintas77 videos on youtube. He might have done a similar hike. He also usually includes his GPS data. He will often camp off trail in the whites and not at established sites. As long as you are comfortable bushwhacking a little ways off trail, camping in the whites usually isn't a problem. Other than going to lower elevations for better trees.

    - Clyde
    Great idea, DocWatson. I am subscribed to Sintax77 and watch a lot of his videos. I know he's done the Pemi Loop several times but I don’t recall seeing him do a Presi Traverse. I'll have to check to see if he did.

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparky32 View Post
    Great idea, DocWatson. I am subscribed to Sintax77 and watch a lot of his videos. I know he's done the Pemi Loop several times but I don’t recall seeing him do a Presi Traverse. I'll have to check to see if he did.

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    He did a presicat loop and I believe he did a presi in the one I remember he dropped down the Sphinx Trail which isn't a easy trail, any place you try to camp will be a good 1500+ drop. I always do the presi in a day because the camping is so bad, its a horrible backpacking. range.

    Also someone mentioned Jewel trail, lots of illegal spots on that trail and hard to find a flat legal spot. One suggestion would to hike up to Valley way tent site, then push it to Naumann tentsite. The AMC charges $10 per person per night and no fires are allowed, most of the care takers wouldn't know a decent hammock spot if it hit them in the back of the head. So you will have to push them for a good spot. I always tell them to put me in the over flow. They wont let you hang over a platform btw.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member sparky32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Slippah View Post
    He did a presicat loop and I believe he did a presi in the one I remember he dropped down the Sphinx Trail which isn't a easy trail, any place you try to camp will be a good 1500+ drop. I always do the presi in a day because the camping is so bad, its a horrible backpacking. range.

    Also someone mentioned Jewel trail, lots of illegal spots on that trail and hard to find a flat legal spot. One suggestion would to hike up to Valley way tent site, then push it to Naumann tentsite. The AMC charges $10 per person per night and no fires are allowed, most of the care takers wouldn't know a decent hammock spot if it hit them in the back of the head. So you will have to push them for a good spot. I always tell them to put me in the over flow. They wont let you hang over a platform btw.
    Thanks for the info. Yes, I saw the Sintax77 video where he dropped down the Sphinx Trail and I also heard elsewhere that it was a difficult trail.

    I heard about the Jewell Trail and mentioned it in one of my posts. I planned to look for a legal place to camp along the Jewell Trail (I wouldn't camp illegally) but after numerous replies I came to the realization that the Jewell Trail was also not going to work.

    Someone else suggested taking Valley Way up to the tent site, spending the night and then get an early start the next morning and push all the way to the Nauman tentsite. The more research I do and the more replies I get, the more I think that is the best option for us on this hike.

    Now I am left wondering if a hammock would work at both of those tent areas. I have searched online for photos and video of both sites to see if a hammock would even be an option or if we should just take our two-person tent? I haven't seen many good photos and nobody has chimed in with personal experience about using a hammock at those locations.

    And yes, I wouldn't think they would allow us to use our hammocks over a tentsite, but we wouldn't do that anyway.

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparky32 View Post
    Thanks for the info. Yes, I saw the Sintax77 video where he dropped down the Sphinx Trail and I also heard elsewhere that it was a difficult trail.

    I heard about the Jewell Trail and mentioned it in one of my posts. I planned to look for a legal place to camp along the Jewell Trail (I wouldn't camp illegally) but after numerous replies I came to the realization that the Jewell Trail was also not going to work.

    Someone else suggested taking Valley Way up to the tent site, spending the night and then get an early start the next morning and push all the way to the Nauman tentsite. The more research I do and the more replies I get, the more I think that is the best option for us on this hike.

    Now I am left wondering if a hammock would work at both of those tent areas. I have searched online for photos and video of both sites to see if a hammock would even be an option or if we should just take our two-person tent? I haven't seen many good photos and nobody has chimed in with personal experience about using a hammock at those locations.

    And yes, I wouldn't think they would allow us to use our hammocks over a tentsite, but we wouldn't do that anyway.

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    Like I said I always recommend to people to just do it as a day hike. Lots of better ranges to backpack.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Rhody Seth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparky32 View Post
    Someone else suggested taking Valley Way up to the tent site, spending the night and then get an early start the next morning and push all the way to the Nauman tentsite. The more research I do and the more replies I get, the more I think that is the best option for us on this hike.

    Now I am left wondering if a hammock would work at both of those tent areas. I have searched online for photos and video of both sites to see if a hammock would even be an option or if we should just take our two-person tent? I haven't seen many good photos and nobody has chimed in with personal experience about using a hammock at those locations.

    And yes, I wouldn't think they would allow us to use our hammocks over a tentsite, but we wouldn't do that anyway.
    I hadn't heard that they don't allow hammocks over the platforms. I stayed at Ethan Pond campsite and hung over one- but that was in September and there wasn't a caretaker. I've certainly seen others hang over platforms at various campsites. That said, I've never spoken to a caretaker about it so Trail Slippah likely knows better than I.

    In terms of finding places to hang at these campsites, I don't think that will be a problem. These campsites have usually have a pretty good area cleared out due to years of use - so there are likely to be options, even if you aren't allowed over a platform.

  6. #16
    Senior Member sparky32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhody Seth View Post
    I hadn't heard that they don't allow hammocks over the platforms. I stayed at Ethan Pond campsite and hung over one- but that was in September and there wasn't a caretaker. I've certainly seen others hang over platforms at various campsites. That said, I've never spoken to a caretaker about it so Trail Slippah likely knows better than I.

    In terms of finding places to hang at these campsites, I don't think that will be a problem. These campsites have usually have a pretty good area cleared out due to years of use - so there are likely to be options, even if you aren't allowed over a platform.
    Thanks for the info. The older I get, the less appealing it is to sleep on the ground; hard, uneven ground, embedded rocks and tree roots just make for a terrible night's rest. I would much rather use my hammock if possible.

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  7. #17
    Senior Member Rhody Seth's Avatar
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    How goes the prep? Been thinking about your trip here. Hope you have good weather!

  8. #18
    Senior Member sparky32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhody Seth View Post
    How goes the prep? Been thinking about your trip here. Hope you have good weather!
    Hi there! The trip prep is moving along nicely. Thanks for asking. Yes, I really hope we have good weather too; I want clear skies so we can see for miles and miles, especially since this isn't right in our "backyard" for us to be able to hike or not hike on the spur of a moment. This is going to be a major drive for us (about 15 or 16 hours).

    As I mentioned in one of my several posts between here and the WhiteBlaze forum, my buddy and I were hoping to use our hammocks instead of a tent. After several people chimed in I had what seemed like a 50 / 50 split between "you can easily use a hammock" and "I wouldn't count on it". Then I spent quite a bit of time reading personal blogs, searching Google for photos and watching a lot of YouTube videos. I hoped I would find good photos and videos of the various camp areas (Valley Way, The Perch, Gray Knob, Craig Camp, Nauman) so I would have visual proof that trees were large enough and not too close or too far apart so we could use our hammocks, but none of that panned out for me. So, to err on the side of caution, we decided to take a two person tent. I'm really not looking forward to sleeping on the ground again after years of hammock use, but that is what we decided to do.

    I also began working out at a local high school football stadium about three weeks ago. I'm spending about 40 minutes, several times per week, climbing and descending the steps in the bleachers. It has been a very good workout. I know it won't make the hike easy, but I hope it better prepares my legs for the hike, as opposed to when we did the Pemi loop a few years back without any physical preparation. Before the Pemi hike I had read about how rough the Whites are but, as go many things in life, you can gather all the book knowledge you like but still not be prepared for the real thing; the Whites have to be personally experienced to fully grasp how difficult they are. I have hiked mountain terrain before -- the Laurel Highlands Hiking Trail in Pennsylvania, and the Beaten Path in Montana's Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness -- but they didn't even come close to the rough terrain in the Whites.

    I have 99% of my gear sitting out in the basement ready to put in my backpack, and just yesterday I bought all the ingredients for the food I am going to make and am dehydrating some other things right now.

    I also have my Tyvek AMC White Mountains map, my orienteering compass and someone else's GPX file loaded onto my phone with a GPS app to use as a backup / second option. I also have multiple bailout routes picked out and direct links to the MWOBS forecasts and Higher Summits forecasts so I can check those as we go... providing we have a cell signal on the ridges.

    Someone told us to hike up to the Valley Way tentsite and spend the night after the AMC shuttle drops us off at Appalachia so we can get an early start on the second day. But that seems like a waste of a lot of good hours, especially if the weather is nice (I figure we would reach Valley Way around 1:00). We are going to keep that as a flexible plan option and only do that if the weather is going to take a turn for the worse on that first day. I am figuring we will arrive at Appalachia sometime around 10:00 am on Monday (August 8th). If it takes us four hours to reach Madison Spring Hut, that will put us right around 2:00 pm. So, if the weather is favorable, I am thinking we should be able to summit Madison and then knock off Adams. At that point we can hike down to The Perch to spend the night, that way we can hit the trail early on Tuesday and have plenty of time to reach the Nauman tentsite by Mizpah Spring Hut. Then, tag Jackson and Webster on Wednesday on the way back to our car near the AMC Highland Center.

    That is how the prep is going so far. If you have any additional thoughts or advice, please let me know. I am very thankful for all the great advice I have received so far.

    Videos of the trips I mentioned:
    Backpacking the Laurel Highlands Hiking Trail (A Revisit and a Reunion)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djxM6c7GOoc

    The Beaten Path Thru Hike - Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness, Montana
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9YotTASn00

    Backpacking In The Pemigewasset Wilderness - White Mountain National Forest
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  9. #19
    Senior Member sparky32's Avatar
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    Okay, so just when I thought all of my questions had been answered, I have one more. I hope someone can provide some sound advice.

    My buddy and I are being shuttled (AMC shuttle) to Appalachia. We were going to hike up Valley Way to the ridge and then hit the summits of Madison and Adams. After that I figured it would be late enough in the day (we probably will not be able to hit the Valley Way Trail until roughly 10:00 am) that we would need to call it a day and head down to The Perch or Gray Knob or Crag Camp.

    Just yesterday, Sintax77 posted a new video ( Hammock Camping the Six Husbands Trail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp4ZHxRPjv8&t=3440s ). He began at Pinkham Notch, hiked north on the Madison Gulf Trail, west on Great Gulf, crossed the Peabody River at the Wamsutta Trail and went north a ways toward the Six Husband's Trail where he found two unofficial but legal camp areas (they had tent symbols on a post). Anyway, he mentioned that he has used similar unofficial but legal camp areas at the intersection of the Sphinx and Great Gulf trails.

    My buddy suggested we hike up the Valley Way and hit Madison, Adams, as originally planned but then continue on to Jefferson. Then we would make our way south to the Sphinx Trail, descend to where it meets the Great Gulf Trail and then attempt to find one of those legal camp areas. He said the next morning we could simply take the Great Gulf Trail up to Mt. Washington and continue south from there.

    Initially I posted about trying to make it to the Jewell Trail on our first day and then descending to find the very limited off-trail camping area. But, someone said that would be a very ambitious goal (meaning, probably not a good idea) to make it that far on the first day, especially since we were getting such a late start at Appalachia.

    So, here are my questions. Looking at my trail map, it appears that the route from Appalachia to the intersection of Sphinx and Great Gulf is roughly 10 miles. Considering the terrain and our 10:00 am start at Appalachia, is that just as "ambitious" as trying to make it to the Jewell Trail (it appears to be roughly the same distance as Jewell)? I have read that descending the Sphinx is quite rough, the rocks can be wet and slippery and the trail is easy to lose in certain areas. Has anyone used one of those camp areas near the Great Gulf Trail? What is it like hiking up to Washington on the Great Gulf Trail? Should we attempt this way or stick to the original plan of spending the night at Perch, Crag or Gray Knob?
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Rhody Seth's Avatar
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    I have yet to spend any time in the Great Gulf Wilderness unfortunately but yes I've also heard the Sphinx trail is rough and steep. All the Northern Presidentials are basically just massive piles of boulders which can slow you down considerably depending on fitness level, pack weight and comfort on that sort of terrain. The Great Gulf Trail is a fairly defined path punctuated by these boulder areas you have to deal with. The shuttle drops you off at 10 AM? Personally I think you're better off planning to camp at Perch, Crag or Gray Knob rather than heading into the unknown of the Great Gulf. It could be really rough descending into the gulf with big packs and tired legs. But a lot also depends on how fast you guys get over Adams and your tolerance for Type 2 Fun.

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