DYI evoloop modification for knot-less, toggle-less MSH suspension?

[KingMob]

Hi everyone.

I’ve been using the j-bend instead of the becket hitch, and I’ve also fallen deep into the Meyers tech & autumn ultralight rabbit hole of interesting no-knot no-hardware suspension and other gadgets.

I’ve played with their soft shackles, evoloops, mini evoloops, and so on.

But something kept sneaking up in the back of my mind, why hasn’t anyone modified the evoloop in order to be both a suspension loop and also a no-hardware strap connector?

So I made and am currently testing this: essentially it’s an amsteel loop, with an Ashley stopper knot at the end, and an overhand knot part way through.

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Once it’s on my hammock, I make the beginning of a MSH in my webbing, pass the ASK and the OK through the webbing where the toggle would go, and soft link it back onto itself.

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What do you all think? Am I crazy, or am I on to something here? This *seems* secure enough, but is it? Does anyone have any tips to modify this to make it more secure?

[PopcornFool]

Conceptually it could work, but I'd have two concerns.

First, I'd be a little concerned that the friction from MSH knot could prevent the Amsteel loop from having enough counterforce to reliably tighten on itself. Soft shackles, EVO loops, etc. usually require the counterforce tension between the loop and the knot to remain secure. The tension keeps the knot in place. If you put something in the way of that tension, I would think there might be a risk that the knots at the connection point could come loose.

Second, (and probably more of a concern for me), it seems like it would be a challenge to untie. A major benefit of the MSH is the quick release capability, usually by removing the toggle or biner, etc. that holds it in place. In your technique, you would have to remove the Amsteel Loop (which has replaced the toggle), but you can't simply slip it out like a toggle because of the overhand and stopper knots. You would have to loosen up the MSH knot every time. That would be a pain when you needed to make adjustments. And it would be a major pain in the cold or rain or if it's been really cinched down from a heavy or lengthy hang.

[nanok]

hey KingMob,

nice to see your experiments, thanks for sharing.

just a few quick notes:

- as i mentioned in the uni-shackle thread, please do not use the ashley in dyneema/amsteel. this has been tested multiple times by multiple people (here on the forums, see the nacrabinner thread, and elsewhere too), the ashley stopper pulls out and dissappears, in dyneema, at very trivial loads. most stopper knots do the same in dyneema. the one single strand stopper knot we know to be safe is the estar stopper. another alternative for your project here, as it's a two strand one, would be the button knot, but if you can't be bothered, you can also try to do a spliced loop overhand stopper (i'll find a link and post it, but you often find youtube videos titeld "easy soft shackle" or something along those lines)

edit: here's a good explanation (and break tests) for the spliced overhand soft shackle method (btw, this channel is great for such topic, so far the best i have found, not only excellent explanations and prodction quality, but they actually test stuff properly): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU_mmdbQeCQ

- this being dyneema, i'd replace the middle overhand with a few brummel locks, it's much neater, and easy to do, and will retain much more of the strength

- i'm a little bit worried about what happens when not under load (so load-unload cycles), i'd be a bit reluctant to use it for suspension (but that's just me, people seem confortable using softshackles without any capture, aka evo loops, for suspension, and this seems more secure)

- to make it more secure, limitting the travel in both directions would definitely help (i think you already tried that?)

- popcorn is correct in that basically all softshackles need "balanced load", so usually they need to be free to move through the objects they connect to, otherwise you risk failure. the strangling action of the MSH here might or might not be enough to be a concern, some testing would be needed, i'm not certain.

conceptually:

- that msh is effectively not an msh anymore, it's basically a slipped overhand (strangle loop?). i think it will be a bit harder on the webbing, and would be a bit more difficult to untie (how do you find it in your testing?). given you have a softshackle of sorts there, i'd think of using some other hitch instead (you don't _need_ the MSH anymore, as you have no toggle to worry about, and have the quick release on the softshackle already, so there should be more options available; even a becket hitch might work)

i like the idea of simplified soft connection options (as you know), so i think this is an interesting idea, and one i haven't played with, as i am more inclined to reduce the length of webbing, and use stuff like ucr's instead (so really nice to see a different perspective on it)

as a side note, i've been working on a spliced/dyneema version of that uni shackle (inspired by the discussion there), which might also be interesting inspiration for this project, i'll have to post some pics

[jeff-oh]

I've been using a spliced version of this for more than a year now. The locked brummel loop (2) is a good replacement for various hardware. As others have said, use the the MSH might be problematic in the morning. Let us know.

However, if you hun the loop on the knot and used the strap tag end to be the toggle that could work, but not sure why you would not just have a continuous loop.
I know the this could be useful with a whoopie sling set-up.
Attachment 181545

[nanok]

I've been using a spliced version of this for more than a year now. The locked brummel loop (2) is a good replacement for various hardware. (...)
Attachment 181545

it's funny, it's only now, in combination with kingmob's pictures, that i get what you meant a while back when answering my thread regarding the "multi shackle". turns out it's really hard to express in words what a picture can show. (i still personally prefer having the second brummel for more secure retention, but i hadn't realized for some reason that what you were suggesting was just to remove one brummel from my setup).

[jeff-oh]

it's funny, it's only now, in combination with kingmob's pictures, that i get what you meant a while back when answering my thread regarding the "multi shackle". turns out it's really hard to express in words what a picture can show. (i still personally prefer having the second brummel for more secure retention, but i hadn't realized for some reason that what you were suggesting was just to remove one brummel from my setup).

Yeah, isn't trying to communicate with just words GRAND! Goes to show the value of joining a group hang now and then to SEE everyone's concoctions and variations to come up with new ways and ideas. Great group here.

Hope to meet at a hang someday, cheers!

[nanok]

Yeah, isn't trying to communicate with just words GRAND! Goes to show the value of joining a group hang now and then to SEE everyone's concoctions and variations to come up with new ways and ideas. Great group here.

Hope to meet at a hang someday, cheers!

that would be quite something (meeting at a group hang). i'd need a few years, at least, anyway, on that continent of yours there, to explore all the wonders still there. maybe some day. in the meantime, it's great to be able to share ideas and communicate even online, even if it's not ideal. pics and short videos also help a lot. agree with you about the group, and i think the sharing of ideas is what makes this group great. thanks for yours.

cheers!