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  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Replacing tarp with Cover or Sock in cool/dry weather?

    Im on a weight cutting binge as I have discovered a couple spots that are close to 20 miles into the back country which I would like to visit more, and 20 miles is much more pleasant with a 25lb pack vs 35. One area I am considering for weight savings is ditching my tarp, a Hammock Gear Journey/630g, when its dry which is 99% of the year here in SoCal. As you can see with the options below, I can save 400-500g for less than $100 shipped which is pretty cheap.

    The inland semi-arid mountains are often 30-50° at night, with varying wind from dead calm to 25+mph.

    My main goal from this piece is to block the wind as a top cover and replace my tarp and bugnet in the cool seasons. A secondary goal would be to supplement/replace my UQP on windy nights, which a sock would do but a cover wouldn't. If I go with a cover only I can bring a UQP as needed.

    Im considering 5 options for my Dutch Chameleon
    1 - 215g / $75 Sym Top Cover with Zipper (Moonlight/adjustible vent size) - Im leaning towards this as my first choice. I like that I can completely close myself in when a very strong wind is blowing. Heavy enough that this + a 6oz UQP is less of a benefit compared to the Journey, but I guess I have used the Journey+UQP so its still a 400g improvement at worst.
    2 - 150g / $60 Sym Top Cover with No Zipper (Fixed Vent size, large) - Weight savings are tempting, but leaves no way to reduce airflow in windy conditions. Large vent size
    3 - 135g / $55 Asym Top Cover, Solid, Fixed Vent medium size - Best weight, probably my #2 pick. Its light enough that I could still easily justify bringing the UQP when needed.
    4 - 285g / $60 Argon Sock No zipper - how does it close with no zipper? weight savings are tempting.
    5 - 355g / $70 Argon Sock With zipper - works as a UQP and top cover. Not as good of a seal as a zipped Cover. No way to cover vent. Appears loose on bottom so UQP properties may be limited

    So my questions -
    1. Im most drawn to either #1, 3, or 5. Which would you pick and why?
    2. Would you say a Top cover/Sock + UQP is about as warm as being in a tarp with doors/no UQP?
    3. How do you enter/exist the Zipperless Sock?
    4. I normally sleep with a Tarp when weight is not a concern and have only started sleeping without one. Is there anything else I should consider by not having a tarp in dry conditions?

    Thanks!

    Links for easy reference
    https://dutchwaregear.com/product/vented-winter-sock/
    https://dutchwaregear.com/product/ch...r-solid-color/
    https://dutchwaregear.com/product/chameleon-top-cover/

  2. #2
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    Aug 2012
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    Bend, OR
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    mcimes, you might be thinking that you don’t need a tarp because you won’t have any rain. Note that more things fall from the sky besides rain water. Just looking at my tarp after a trip (with no rain) reminds me. The first three things I think of are bird droppings, tree sap, and bright moon overhead shinning right in my eyes. So were it me, I’d skip the sock and keep the tarp. Note that the socks are breathable - not waterproof - so you want to be REALLY SURE it won’t rain.

    Remember, if you reach a spot with no trees, and you have a tarp, you could tarp camp. But that means you’ve probably switched out the UQ for a pad so you could be setup for both cases.

    As far as “sock with no zipper”, I can think of two possible designs. One would have a bottom opening, like the classic Hennessy hammocks. The other, like one of DutchWare’s designs, was more a tapered tube you pull over the main body of the hammock. My problem with that was I was too short to reach to the top/ends of the hammock while I’m in it. I know, I could have binered a pulley to the end of the hammock and run a line from the sock, through the pulley, back to me, so I could adjust it. But that solution just now popped into my head.

    If I were equipping for cool/dry weather I’d use a WB MiniFly (about 11 oz or 300g) and a 2QZQ UQP. That’s a pretty light combination "covering" a WIDE range of weather conditions.

    Even if you are absolutely correct that there will be no rain, no reason to have a waterproof cover at all, I’d still want a tarp to keep everything under the tarp cleaner.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Alright, I pulled the trigger on the Moonlight Cover to try out as a tarpless setup. I'll see how that goes.

    Im not worried about sky borne objects landing on my stuff. California semi-arid mountains have relatively few birds, few pines, and (unfortunately) very, very little rain which is highly seasonal and predictable a week in advance. I like the Minifly idea, but that only saves a few oz and im looking to cut more for the long hikes, plus the $/oz saved ratio is too pricey at this time. I need to get my pack to ~25lbs which is a 30% reduction from last trip. Maybe I'll get one in the future as a 2nd tarp for medium distances like 7-12 miles. I like the idea of partial doors. I really want the top cover to work because that allows me to cut 4-6 stakes and guylines which saves another 2-3 oz on top of the tarp itself.

    Maybe I'll change my mind after trying it out, but its worth a shot based on my year round nearly-ideal camping conditions and the low $/oz saved. I'll update after I try it out in a couple-few weeks to see if it was a success or a better idea on paper.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
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    Your tarp is your shelter. Always bring the tarp! Especially in the mountains. I have been on trips at the top of summer when KABOOM - unexpected thunderstorm! Fog, lightning, rain, all of that.

    Your tarp is a smidge on the heavy side. You can switch to a simple hex tarp with no doors and that would take off a few ounces. You can lose some additional guy line weight by attaching tarp directly to hammock suspension.

    If you are in an area with few/no trees, then having a tarp gives you a go-to-ground shelter option that the cover will not.

    One thing i appreciate about the tarp in dry daytime conditions is just having a shady place with a view. With a top cover you get either shade or airflow but not both. On hot days you want both.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    You're both thinking like Oregonians.
    9 of the last 12 years have been drought for CA. On the coastal mountains of the Los Padres forest, we do not get any rain whatsoever, no mist, no fog, nothing for 8+ months a year. If there was a 1% chance or rain I'd bring a tarp, but for 8 months a year I can confidently say there is Zero percent chance of rain and in the other 4 months, 3 out of 4 years will have less than 2 hand's worth of rainy days (which is bad in general, but good for camping if the earth is not on fire).

    Even when I bring it I don't hang out under the tarp, so nothing lost there.

    I'm originally from MN so appreciate that you are bringing up very valid points for the vast majority of the country, just not for my locale.

    And I accept I may experience a miserable day or 2 as a result of unforseen circumstances (that is not rain). Im trying it anyways, in foolishness or boldness. History will decide which

    Edit, I should add i have an ultralight plastic sheet in the emergency kit if I truly was caught by a freak unpredicted storm (basically something to lay on the ground with and pull it over you). It wouldn't be great, but I would survive so its not a life or death decision

  6. #6
    LowTech's Avatar
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    I'm also familiar w/ the "no rain" SoCal area, in fact just back from 5days there in our hammocks. I used my tarp every day for shade and it's still winter.
    Here in our camp in S.Arizona I also have the tarp up almost every day (sleeved the rest of the time) over my hammock for shade.
    I would definitely have trouble giving it up while desert camping. And, like others have said, it's my "go to ground" shelter if I have no other option. Spent way to many years tarp camping before I got back off the ground again to not think of them as my everything shelter.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcimes View Post
    You're both thinking like Oregonians.
    That’s true, but I was actually thinking about hanging on my back porch in the sun. It’s an awkward spot that isn’t covered and I often wish i had a tarp just to keep the sun off.

  8. #8
    joe_guilbeau's Avatar
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    Factor in the wind

  9. #9
    Senior Member Big Sweets's Avatar
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    My last two trips I've just used a Dutch winter sock. Even a light sprinkle wasn't a big deal but by no means abandon your tarp.
    Formerly McBlaster
    The Tent is a Lie

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    While the simple answer is to bring a dyneema tarp as it's lighter and provides coverage vs a sock.
    However it's not practical for most. A small asym tarp is. Similar weight and pack size to a sock but for not much more cash. Simply Light designs makes a superb asym.

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