Cold weather with insufficient UQs

[docbrown]

I'm camping this weekend with my son in the middle of the polar vortex (or whatever this weather system actually is). Forecast Friday night is around 20degrees, and I'm expecting it to be a bit colder than that up on the mountain where we're camping. We both have 20degree sleeping bags and 40degree OneTigris UQs. I'm planning to bring an extra blanket or sleeping bag for each of us. I'm also planning to put a layer of Reflectix in the bottom of the hammocks under our sleeping bags. Two questions:
Are we better off with the extra blanket on top of us or would it be better to sandwich it between the UQ and hammock?
Would we gain much benefit from including an emergency blanket in the whole setup? If so, are we better off trying to attach it to the outside of the UQ, placing it between the UQ and hammock, or putting it as the top layer?

[Phantom Grappler]

If it was me, I’d postpone camping trip until I had gear fit for weather I’d be facing.
That said
Any way you can get good pads that are wide enough, long enough and with enough insulative range—tossed into your hammocks would be a big plus until you can get quilts that are rated 10* lower than forecasted temperatures.
Gossamer Gear pads?
If you wake up too cold to sleep, middle of night, it’s good to have plenty of dry firewood, so you can sit by the fire until sunrise.
Hand warmers and Nalgene bottles full of hot water can make a difference between being warm enough to sleep or not.
And let’s not forget my all time favorite—high calorie meals and extra snacks just before sleep, to keep inner furnace stoked with fuel!
Back yard test or test where you can safely bail in case of being too cold.
Good luck, Spring is coming!

[cmoulder]

I agree with Phantom.

The combination you've described might be adequate to get you through the night comfortably. However, I would absolutely test this in similar conditions in a place that has an easy bail-out option. At least try it in your backyard, if possible. Even if the temp gets down to only 35°F you'll have some idea whether it will be a practical setup. And if you find out it doesn't work at 35°F in that setting, it sure as heck isn't going to work on top of a mountain at 20°F.

IMHO there's no substitute for a good, conservatively rated UQ. Early on I tried air mats and foam mats and found them to be a royal PITA (inadequate, uncomfortable and fidgety) that just destroyed the whole idea behind using a hammock in the first place.

[chapinb]

Don't.
Camp in your backyard if you need to get out. If you need to camp in the mountains, make sure your car is close. Or go ground. You can make that gear work in a tent, not a hammock with thoes uq

[Shug]

Might want to add a pad to your set-ups if your going to actually do this trip.
The blanket between the hammock and UQ could cause gaps or the UQ to sag.
Good luck~~~
Shug

[BillyBob58]

Some have advised cancelling your trip until you are more certain of your gear, and that is of course the safest option.

Or, do you have ground pads(which of course can also be used in a hammock, only for emergencies for most folks, and MUCH easier done in some hammocks than others)? Have you previously used this gear on the ground and been warm enough at similar temps? If so, is there any reason why, if you just can not make it work in the hammock work(always a possibility), that you could not bail out to the ground? I had personal experience with exactly that approach on my first nigh ever in a hammock at 22F. I went from shivering to sleeping warmly on the ground. Thank goodness I had brought my pads for just such a situation(as well as the likelihood of sleeping above timberline)

Do you trust the temp rating of your sleeping bags, FOR YOU and your son? If so, then your most obvious problem is likely to be those 40 rated UQs. Even assuming that they are actually good for 40F( I am not familiar with the brand), there have been a million threads here over the years with people having trouble getting anywhere near the rated temps of the highest quality UQs. Not because of lack of quality, but because UQs CAN BE TRICKY! They literally must be adjusted perfectly, and some folks seem to have trouble with that, at least on first time using. So, putting the blanket under the hammock is probably going to give a much higher rate of return as far as being warm. Especially since the UQs, even if everything works perfectly, are already not rated warm enough for your temps.

Unfortunately, stacking something with your UQ can get even trickier than getting one UQ to work. What you add must not cause any gaps due to the extra weight. Or if added outside of your main UQ(will need a suspension rigged up), must be snug enough for no gaps AND not be tight enoughto compress the loft of your UQ. Don't get me wrong, many people pull this off, but there are even more ways to go wrong than with a single UQ. Pads, as a boost for your UQ, if you can stay on them, are a much better bet, especially if you have double layer or bridge hammocks. And if you don't have any pads, a Walmart blue pad is dirt cheap. Plus of course, as a last resort, are there for you if you are forced to ground.

You asked about a space blanket(which is also a vapor barrier/VB). Most would say "no", mainly due to condensation issues, or perhaps other complaints. I have always been the odd man out on that(and a few other things). I have used a space blanket on and off for 14 years with great success and never a problem(YMMV). Right under my hammock and on top of all insulation beneath, mostly with my HH Super Shelter but also inside my Speer Pea Pod. I have never used it with one of my regular UQs, but I see no reason why it would not work exactly the same. I would not hesitate to do so if I was cold. I never get any condensation or sweat worth mentioning(usually zero), and it adds at least 15F to my under insulation with the added benefit of keeping my body vapor from condensing in the outer layers of my insulation, keeping everything dryer. The key to using them is to insulate them and keep them warm! IOW, right under the hammock and on top of any other insulation. This keeps the space blanket close to body temp and WAY above the dew point where condensation occurs. If you attempt to wrap it around the outside of your UQ or sleeping bag, it will be the coldest part of your system and you WILL get condensation and freeze. Guaranteed. (Unless you have another space blanket or vapor barrier(VB, which can also be clothing) close to your body, which will prevent your body vapor from reaching that cold outer VB in the first place) Though admittedly a space blanket wrapped around the outside of your insulation will provide a great wind block, it won't come close to making up for the wet insulation you will end up with if you use a cold outer layer VB. ( at the other end, if you sweat from being too warm, at least the space blanket will keep your sweat from making it into your UQ, decreasing it's warmth considerably)

[BillyBob58]

Also, when it comes to staying on pads: consider a short piece of pad, either torso sized or just big enough to go under the most critical area: butt and lower back(kidney area). And or with a separate short leg pad. I find that a torso or low back/butt pad is MUCH easier to manage in a hammock than a full length pad. For me anyway.

[cougarmeat]

I have a ¾ length, three season synthetic UQ (Rock Creek?) for the ridge runner and I wanted to see how it would work with our current 20 degree temperatures. AT HOME, I set it up and, as the RR was double layer, I inserted a full length sheet of ReflexIt. Worked okay but not as well as a full Lynx. That’s the kind of experimenting I suggest. Did I mention that I tried this at home - not 5 miles out in the woods.

[gooless]

I wouldn't be too far from a warm house or car with what you have without adding a pad with some insulation value. Doesn't have to be the newest or lightest, I'd use my somewhat dated but full length Thermarest Prolight from 8-10 years ago or something similar and sleep in the bag and add the extra layer on top.

The real problem with pushing the line with sketchy insulation while hanging "in the mountains" is that a calm 15-20* is not the same as 15-20* with 15-20 mph winds which can be the difference between being uncomfortable and being hypothermic.

[docbrown]

Thanks for the feedback. There's some good information here. The original plan for this campout was to stay at a State Park in a car camping scenario with my son's scout troop. We're doing a gear check-out in preparation for a short backpacking trip in March. So we would be camping right near the cars. However, the lows are now likely be to be closer to 15deg. Most of the guys in the troop don't have gear that works below 25-30deg since we live in Alabama and rarely have a need for much more than that. So we did decide to push this back a week. Next weekend is forecast to have a low around 35-40deg, which is much more doable.

At our January campout, my son has spent the night in his hammock with that gear down to the upper 20s and stayed comfortable (though he did sleep in all his layers, including jacket). One of the other boys in the troop decided to sleep in his hammock with just a sleeping bag and no underquilt. He ended up getting up at 1am and sitting by the fire the rest of the night. Underquilts really make a difference!