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  1. #11
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    it depends on the knot, but testing has shown most knots will slide at abysmally low loads (like 10-15% of line strength), and some rare knots will hold, but will fail at much lower loads than expected on "normal" rope (for instance if memory serves me, a decent knot like the figure 8 loop, which is expected to maintain around 80% line strength, will fail under 50% in dyneema, more like 30%).

    there's really hardly any point in using dyneema rope if not splicing, and splicing some simple fixed loops is really really easy. i hesitated to "leran splicing" too, for way too long, it's really easy with this kind of rope: 5 minutes maybe to read some instructions or watch a video, and a piece of bent wire, is all it takes.
    Last edited by nanok; 02-11-2021 at 15:55.

  2. #12
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    Splices can reduce amsteel strength, just not as much as knots.
    Correct splices with long enough bury, are stronger than even correctly tied and tightened knots.
    I use 1/8 amsteel because it adds extra strength to make up for my knots and usual tight hammock ridgeline.
    Amsteel has a low melting point, so I now avoid slip and grip or friction hitches for my hammock suspensions.
    I do use prusiks and Farrimond Friction Hitches on tarp side guylines.
    I use double diamond knots as toggles in my hammock suspensions, both in my Grapplers Hitch and S&D suspension. Never had amsteel slide or knot come loose from years of hanging.

    When I tighten double diamond knot, I put my body weight on both ends of knot at same time.
    This is secure for normal hammock use.

    My memory might be off, as to specific knots.
    Two excellent vendors Jeff Myers of Myers Tech and Anne Marie of Autumn Ultralight use knots and splices in some of their commercial creations.
    I think Jeff uses diamond knots and other button knots (Chinese button knot?) and Anne Marie uses a button knot as well. Some of their knots are finished with an amsteel bury.

    While this is not as rigorous as destructive testing, proof is in the pudding, with many hammock campers enjoying Myers Tech and Autumn Ultralight. I’ve not read about any of their knots unraveling or their amsteel creations breaking.

    Ways I’m experimenting to make an amsteel diamond knot more secure.
    Tie an overhand knot, tight, placed roughly in middle of diamond knot. Once diamond knot is tightened the overhand knot makes a too fat bump to travel either way through knot. Only problem, it’s not as smooth looking or as symmetrical looking as a pure diamond knot.

    My other idea is to backsplice all loose ends. Again it’s not as smooth looking or symmetrical, but the fat splice does not want to travel back through the knot.
    But it probably could with destructive testing—either that or the amsteel breaks. And at less load than a good splice would fail.

    A good splice is stronger, I get2 fidgeting and all the sudden the amsteel knots itself—knot my fault

  3. #13
    SoDakOverland's Avatar
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    I found these dudes with knots and info about amsteel and they also do break tests on the videos to show the slippage, break strength etc after they tie things like soft shackles. They have helped my information gathering immensely.

    https://youtu.be/jU_mmdbQeCQ

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoDakOverland View Post
    I found these dudes with knots and info about amsteel and they also do break tests on the videos to show the slippage, break strength etc after they tie things like soft shackles. They have helped my information gathering immensely.

    https://youtu.be/jU_mmdbQeCQ
    yes. these guys are awesome, i don't think i found anybody else currently doing and documenting proper testing of these things. the other great resources i know of have been evan strazingers excellent website (which is now only available from archives, sadly), and l-36.

    it's difficult to beat the entertainment value of watching strong dyneema soft shackles (and other stuff) being pulled until they blow to pieces. i mean, it's very educational and stuff.

  5. #15
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    a good splice is typically how amsteels rated strength is determined (it is spliced properly into dogbones, then pulled to destruction, and the data obtained is the rated strength the manufacturer gives us). a "good splice" will simply not break, the line will typically break elsewhere.

    through oversizing, anything can be made adequate in strength. but let's not forget, a splice in the case of dyneema is not "stronger", it is typically 10-5 times stronger than a knot. this is a bit of a problem, because the point of using dyneema is strength to weight ratio, if i'm okay with a 1/10 loss in strength, then i might as well use some honest nylon rope, i'll end up with much lower price, higher melting point, and even a thinner rope for the same purpose. okay, it won't float and it won't be as uv resistant and a few other differences, most of which one can easily live with. in other words, if i tie a bowline in dyneema, i'll be better of using some honest nylon/polyester rope.

    the diamond knot used in a soft shackle is a different story (soft shackles are doubled over twice, so the oversizing there is multiplied), but the diamond knot does fail somewhere around 30% of line strength, as it is used in a soft shackle, so it is indeed quite inefficient (and the main reason nobody uses it for that anymore). the button knot, brian toss' one, which everybody uses these days, is much more effective (and an outstanding invention), i don't know that anybody really tested at what load brian's button fails; we know the shackles made with it fail closer to 50-55% line strength (which is a significant improvement), but they don't actually fail at the knot, which means that knot is one of the rare examples which are significantly above 50% in dyneema.

    but the OP is not talking about softshackles, so i don't want to hijack the thread too much. just "be careful with knots in dyneema, avoid if at all possible"
    Last edited by nanok; 02-13-2021 at 04:48.

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