Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 33
  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    old dirt
    Posts
    444
    i kept my mouth shut succesfully, so far, but now that the initial question is thoroughly answered, may i please hijack the thread and ask if somebody can enlighten me, cause i just can't figure it out: nylon line is not good for guylines, because it stretches, it must be dyneema (or "the less stretch the better"). but add some shock cord, to get some stretch in case the tarp stretches from humidity, or moves in the wind (so it won't flap). dyneema is light, but shock cord long enough and with high enough elasticity modulus so it's useful is heavy (and dyneema for same diameter is only about 30% or so lighter than nylon, shock cord might well make up for it entirely). dyneema guylines are strong, but shock cord is not, and anyway (even if you set the shock cord in parallel), the tarp is not strong enough to match. in dyneema most knots are about as useful as they are on boiled noodles, which is kind of unfortunate for guylines. i am certainly missing something essential here, what's the trick with dyneema guylines again? i mean, i love uhmwpe, but as much as i do, it just seems like plain old nylon is a better idea (and i'm not even talking about PP yet, which is lighter than dyneema still, and dirt cheap, cheaper than nylon)

    seriously, what am i missing? thanks in advance

  2. #12
    Senior Member Rambler_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Hammock
    WB Eldorado
    Tarp
    Dutch Bonded Xenon
    Insulation
    Whooki/Burrow
    Suspension
    MyersTech/Becket
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by nanok View Post
    i kept my mouth shut succesfully, so far, but now that the initial question is thoroughly answered, may i please hijack the thread and ask if somebody can enlighten me, cause i just can't figure it out: nylon line is not good for guylines, because it stretches, it must be dyneema (or "the less stretch the better"). but add some shock cord, to get some stretch in case the tarp stretches from humidity, or moves in the wind (so it won't flap). dyneema is light, but shock cord long enough and with high enough elasticity modulus so it's useful is heavy (and dyneema for same diameter is only about 30% or so lighter than nylon, shock cord might well make up for it entirely). dyneema guylines are strong, but shock cord is not, and anyway (even if you set the shock cord in parallel), the tarp is not strong enough to match. in dyneema most knots are about as useful as they are on boiled noodles, which is kind of unfortunate for guylines. i am certainly missing something essential here, what's the trick with dyneema guylines again? i mean, i love uhmwpe, but as much as i do, it just seems like plain old nylon is a better idea (and i'm not even talking about PP yet, which is lighter than dyneema still, and dirt cheap, cheaper than nylon)

    seriously, what am i missing? thanks in advance

    Interesting..... you’ve really got me thinking now. I’ve never considered this before. I just went with a very little to no stretch guyline like suggested on the forums here. Maybe I need to try some guyline with some stretch and report back

  3. #13
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jersey Shore, NJ
    Hammock
    Dutch PolyD
    Tarp
    HG Winter Palace
    Insulation
    HG 0, 20, 40
    Suspension
    Dutch Whoopie Hook
    Posts
    14,716
    Images
    3
    I don't use shock cord, especially on my DCF tarp, which doesn't stretch. I don't even use shock cord on my silnylon tarp (which does stretch when it gets wet). Once the silnylon tarp is wet, I just restake it. The concept of using shock cord auto-tensioners doesn't even make sense to me: does your silnylon tarp stretch when wet? Well, all you need is to add MORE stretch by adding shock cord to your guylines. Huh?

    If you buy into that counter-intuitive rationale, then nylon guylines make sense.


    I have very little use for shock cord in general; it's not very durable and sucks in cold weather. I also find nylon cord generally useless for hammocking. Once it gets wet it stretches. Zing-It has minimal stretch, and is extremely durable.

    The only place I tolerate shock cord is on my UQ - that's one thing shock cord does well.
    Last edited by SilvrSurfr; 07-17-2021 at 18:41.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #14
    New Member Rath Adventures's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Manitoba, Canada
    Hammock
    Coyote Pack - HMO
    Insulation
    Uglyquilt's
    Posts
    31
    I find myself just using truckers hitches or taut line hitches on everything. Easy, Adjustable, and in the case of the truckers hitch, easily removable, takes a second to have it apart. Learning the truckers hitch has been so beneficial and I can't believe it took me this long to realize how great it is. (Just got into hammocking this year). It's great for guy lines because if I set it up and the tarp needs to be tightened, or the ridgeline needs to be tighter, it's as simple as undoing the safety knot, cranking it down tighter, and re-knotting. it's so simple and quick!
    Manitoba, Canada
    First Ever Hang

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    old dirt
    Posts
    444
    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    I don't use shock cord, especially on my DCF tarp, which doesn't stretch. I don't even use shock cord on my silnylon tarp (which does stretch when it gets wet). Once the silnylon tarp is wet, I just restake it. The concept of using shock cord auto-tensioners doesn't even make sense to me: does your silnylon tarp stretch when wet? Well, all you need is to add MORE stretch by adding shock cord to your guylines. Huh?

    If you buy into that counter-intuitive rationale, then nylon guylines make sense.
    hmm. unfortunately, our intuition has serious limitations, so counter intuitive often doesn't mean untrue.

    in this case, the reason for needing stretch in the system is mainly rooted in the fact this is a very lightweight system, so rigidity and dimensional stability cannot be guaranteed, especially under wind loads. in other words, **** will move, when windy **** will move a lot. the stretch of the tarp and guyline system allows for that movement without any part of the structure going completely slack (which we don't want to happen, as it would change the shape of the shelter so it might not work so well for shedding water etc, and it will give opportunity for shock loading, which is what rips such structures to pieces)

    imagine a completely no-stretch structure of this kind (maybe a dcf tarp with dyneema guylines comes close, but i'm not sure, i haven't had the chance to play with dcf yet), let's imagine you have it staked out and taut. if you move a stake, even just a few mm, the tarp goes slack. in the opposite direction, if you pull on the tarp hard enough to cause some movement, the stake will come out. this is basically what stretch is meant to avoid, and why it makes sense even for nylon tarps (my rule of thumb is that the guylines should always be more stretchy than the tarp itself)

    I have very little use for shock cord in general; it's not very durable and sucks in cold weather. I also find nylon cord generally useless for hammocking. Once it gets wet it stretches. Zing-It has minimal stretch, and is extremely durable.(...)
    i also tend to hate shock cord, but in some cases it's useful. not what the question was about though (i didn't mean to rant about shock cord, sorry if it sounded like i did).

    nylon rope does stretch, and it gains a few linear credits when it gets wet, yeah, but i never found that to be a problem, on the contrary. it's definitely a pain to use for actual hammock suspension (not unusable, but annoying), but otherwise it remains one of the most useful fibers ever invented, even though i'm a big fan of uhmwpe.
    Last edited by nanok; 07-18-2021 at 01:54.

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    old dirt
    Posts
    444
    Quote Originally Posted by Rath Adventures View Post
    I find myself just using truckers hitches or taut line hitches on everything. Easy, Adjustable, and in the case of the truckers hitch, easily removable, takes a second to have it apart. Learning the truckers hitch has been so beneficial and I can't believe it took me this long to realize how great it is. (Just got into hammocking this year). It's great for guy lines because if I set it up and the tarp needs to be tightened, or the ridgeline needs to be tighter, it's as simple as undoing the safety knot, cranking it down tighter, and re-knotting. it's so simple and quick!
    welcome to the hammock world. knots are great, and very useful to know, and the truckers hitch is quite impressive among them. i don't use it for guylines though, because it provides too much mechanical advantage (easy to overtighten the tarp), and is too tedious to adjust. yeah, the opposite of what you find: once you try other knot solutions i described here on the forums, which allow you to adjust tension in both directions, one handed and without having to tie or untie anything, you'll see what i mean

    if you do like the mechanical advantage, the solutions i described (like the "uni-shackle") also allow to easily create a "self locking, infinitely adjustable" truckers hitch, and with two uni-shackles you can add to that also "resettable" (so you get a fully featured, no hardware, ratcheting system), but don't use that on a tarp though, unless you don't like the particular tarp

  7. #17
    New Member Rath Adventures's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Manitoba, Canada
    Hammock
    Coyote Pack - HMO
    Insulation
    Uglyquilt's
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by nanok View Post
    welcome to the hammock world. knots are great, and very useful to know, and the truckers hitch is quite impressive among them. i don't use it for guylines though, because it provides too much mechanical advantage (easy to overtighten the tarp), and is too tedious to adjust. yeah, the opposite of what you find: once you try other knot solutions i described here on the forums, which allow you to adjust tension in both directions, one handed and without having to tie or untie anything, you'll see what i mean

    if you do like the mechanical advantage, the solutions i described (like the "uni-shackle") also allow to easily create a "self locking, infinitely adjustable" truckers hitch, and with two uni-shackles you can add to that also "resettable" (so you get a fully featured, no hardware, ratcheting system), but don't use that on a tarp though, unless you don't like the particular tarp
    For guy lines I do mostly use a tautline, the truckers is easy to overtighten you're not wrong!
    Manitoba, Canada
    First Ever Hang

  8. #18
    Senior Member P-Dub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Ann Arbor MI
    Hammock
    Chameleon
    Tarp
    DIY (Olive Oyl)
    Insulation
    [allergic to down]
    Posts
    929
    Images
    1
    The difference between using shock cord to take up slack vs. nylon cord is that the nylon will not re-adjust itself after it stretches (until it dries out). The shock cord will adjust based on varying conditions in real time (as in winds).

    (that said, I don't use shock cord on my lines -- I use linelocs for readjustment if conditions change the tautness of the tarp)

  9. #19
    Senior Member cmoulder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Ossining, NY
    Hammock
    DH Darien, SLD Tree Runner
    Tarp
    HG hex
    Insulation
    Timmermade, Revolt
    Suspension
    Kevlar, Lapp Hitch
    Posts
    4,912
    Images
    356
    For adjusting/tweaking guylines I use Blake's hitch. Using Lawson Glowire, which holds knots superbly, and DCF tarps with very low stretch, they rarely have to be re-tensioned anyway. Most mornings I hop out of the hammock and they're just where they were the evening before.

    adjustable_loop_with_blake_s_hitch.jpg
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ~ Gen. George S Patton

  10. #20
    cougarmeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Bend, OR
    Hammock
    WBBB, WBRR, WL LiteOwl
    Tarp
    OES, WL BullFro
    Insulation
    HG UQ, TQ, WB UQ
    Suspension
    Python Straps
    Posts
    3,759
    When people discuss not needing a tarp, it seems they think the only reason for a tarp is to keep off the rain. But - covered in many other posts - a tarp has more purpose than that.

    So with the guyline. It has more of a job than just keeping the intial tautness. One afternoon I made up sets of guylines that have about 6- 8 inch bungee at the tarp end that parallels a longer length of regular guy line (nite-eze, but larsons, etc. will do). The idea is, there is stretch but the parallel length limits it so the bungee will not over stretch and if it breaks, the guyline is still attached.

    It serves three functions:
    I have silnylon so if there is stretch the tautness/shape is maintained.
    If I find a guyline with my foot, there is some give before the force is transferred directly to the tarp
    And mostly - I have to deal more with wind than rain. Having the bungee allows the tarp to “bend” and spill a wind gust, then spring back into shape.

    It is certainly not a necessity but for me it is a convenience and I can deal with the weigh of a few feet of light bungee (8 inches x 4 guylines).
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  • + New Posts
  • Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

    Similar Threads

    1. pros/cons of tarp over/under ridgeline
      By dickstarbuck in forum Weather Protection
      Replies: 40
      Last Post: 01-25-2020, 18:20
    2. Pros & Cons of 11' vs 12' Tarp
      By WoodlandNightHawk in forum Weather Protection
      Replies: 21
      Last Post: 09-08-2018, 04:02
    3. tarp material, pros and cons.
      By solohh in forum Weather Protection
      Replies: 7
      Last Post: 10-23-2016, 08:19
    4. CRL or Tarp Flyz, pros and cons - I can't decide
      By someone_great in forum Weather Protection
      Replies: 20
      Last Post: 11-20-2014, 13:32
    5. Black Tarp Pros/Cons
      By hangnout in forum Weather Protection
      Replies: 26
      Last Post: 03-02-2010, 06:39

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •