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  1. #11
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    It looks like the original owner put the rings there so different suspension systems could be easily switched out. You can use whoopie slings, you can use daisy chain, you can use webbing, you can carabiner climbing hexes and stoppers or friends. Just attach the what you want to try to the rings. I put rings on all my hammocks just for that purpose (and they provide a water break). So no need to cut anything.

    Again, snakeskins are primarily used on tarps. They come as one long - 12 ft or so - skin that starts at one end and is pulled to the other end. Or they come in a pair, each about 6 ft long. Each is pulled from the end and they meet in the middle. If you have two complete sets of snake skins, save the second for your second tarp. “What second tarp?” you may ask. Don’t worry, you’ll understand later.

    So the hammock is usually carried in a double ended stuff sack - or just a stuff sack. I’m not saying you can’t put your hammock in a skin. But you are correct that you’d probably have to remove those rings. Just use a stiff sack for the hammock and keep the snake skins for tarps.

    Back to hammock suspension - some people love whoopie slings. Some people put up with them because they are going for minimum weight. Note the new fabrics for webbing and daisy chain are now on the market taking away some of that weight advantage. And understand it is all pros AND cons. For example, if you use a whoopie sling, your trees will probably have to be further apart than if you use something else. That makes your universe of candidate trees smaller. If is raining and cold you may not like to fiddle with the bury of the whoopie sling.

    Some people love them - that’s fine. We can all share a beer (separate beers of course) at the same table. I’m just saying there are other, perhaps simpler, ways to suspend your hammock and those rings allow you to easily switch out one system for another.
    Last edited by cougarmeat; 01-10-2021 at 00:17.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cougarmeat View Post
    It looks like the original owner put the rings there so different suspension systems could be easily switched out. You can use whoopie slings, you can use daisy chain, you can use webbing, you can carabiner climbing hexes and stoppers or friends. Just attach the what you want to try to the rings. I put rings on all my hammocks just for that purpose (and they provide a water break). So no need to cut anything.

    Again, snakeskins are primarily used on tarps. They come as one long - 12 ft or so - skin that starts at one end and is pulled to the other end. Or they come in a pair, each about 6 ft long. Each is pulled from the end and they meet in the middle. If you have two complete sets of snake skins, save the second for your second tarp. “What second tarp?” you may ask. Don’t worry, you’ll understand later.

    So the hammock is usually carried in a double ended stuff sack - or just a stuff sack. I’m not saying you can’t put your hammock in a skin. But you are correct that you’d probably have to remove those rings. Just use a stiff sack for the hammock and keep the snake skins for tarps.

    Back to hammock suspension - some people love whoopie slings. Some people put up with them because they are going for minimum weight. Note the new fabrics for webbing and daisy chain are now on the market taking away some of that weight advantage. And understand it is all pros AND cons. For example, if you use a whoopie sling, your trees will probably have to be further apart than if you use something else. That makes your universe of candidate trees smaller. If is raining and cold you may not like to fiddle with the bury of the whoopie sling.

    Some people love them - that’s fine. We can all share a beer (separate beers of course) at the same table. I’m just saying there are other, perhaps simpler, ways to suspend your hammock and those rings allow you to easily switch out one system for another.
    Hey thanks for all this info. I'm gonna have to get that book. I don't mind the idea of the whoopie slings for now but I'm sure I'll experiment at some point. The snakeskins that came with this are the Hennessy ones where it takes a pair to wrap up the tarp/hammock. I was interested in having them inboard of the rings on the hammock to aid in packing up, but the rings and slings would still be exposed, I reckon.

    A very helpful fella at whoopieslings.com told me it's just a wrap of some sort attaching the ring to the hammock. Maybe I can figure out how to undo it and replicate it. But if I'm not trying to fit the snakeskins I guess there's no need for now.

    I'm primarily going to be camping off my motorcycle so weight isn't as crucial as it is to others, but space still kinda matters. I think I could use a compression sack or two for the hammock and fly. Tomorrow I might try setting up the ridgeline and rainfly. The ridgeline I have also seems to be from whoopieslings.com and seems pretty simple. Would like to see if I can easily get the line and fly in a set of snake skins. I tried getting just the rainfly wrapped up in them but I didn't have it suspended so I only got so far. I'd imagine it's easier with it hanging. I need some guy lines as well.

  3. #13
    Senior Member oldbiker's Avatar
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    Personal opinion: Whoopie slings are mostly used by ultra light hikers because of being light but do have a fiddle factor. I've built several, tried them but didn't like them because of tree selection & needing tree straps with them.

    Tried days chains & did not like them because you cannot fine tune. One loop was always to tight while the next was to loose.

    Straps & buckles was the easiest most user friendly for me. I do not hike but camp from a motorcycle also. Dutch has some light strap material. I make continuous loops with the buckle wrapped with it when I make them.

    It took me 3-4 year to settle on my selection from experience. I'm sure you will learn from experience what works best for you & your particular application. Enjoy the ride.

  4. #14
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    As with oldbiker, I’ve been moving from daisy chain back to webbing. The daisy chain usually gives you around a 3-5 inch step. I carry an Amsteel loop I can double and put on the chain that gives me sort of a half step when I need it. But webbing offers continuous adjustments.

    Some of the “lore” you will learn as you use the gear. For example, you mention putting your hammock and tarp in a compression sack. It sounds like you’d be using the same sack. Once you use your tarp in the rain, you may want to keep wet things - the tarp - separate from dry things. the snake skins will cover the wet tarp but they are not a seal to keep the water in and you wouldn’t want them to be. Their forte is keeping the tarp manageable when setting up in high wind and allowing you to rig the tarp suspension line while keeping the body out of the way until needed. Many have gone to mesh snakeskins because once the wet tarp goes into the solid nylon snake skins, the skins will need to be dried out too. None of that is much of a problem unless you have days and days of steady rain (sorry my Seattle friends )

    Most gear is a compromise and the compromise often comes in by sacrificing ease and/or robustness for light weight. Because you will not be carrying the gear on your back so much. You can lean more toward the “ease” part. And the weigh differences are sometimes measured in just a few ounces.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  5. #15
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    Maybe I should carry a few different suspension systems until I figure out what I like. Definitely two separate compression sacks. I could probably use one or two more as well for other stuff. I got the rainfly in the snakeskins but getting it back in the sack from Hennessy was a challenge. Mesh snakeskins sounds pretty handy. I think I have a Wallyworld daisy chain. Polyester I think? Not sure if that would be good or not but I can experiment.

    Being on a bike, there are ways to strap down wet stuff outside of the bags to air dry a bit, but I'm sure there would still be moisture in there. Especially with the snakeskins.

    I see how the Hennessy Super Shelter may not be ideal but I'll probably give it a try. I'm still very interested in finding a quilt and pad setup that would work with a cot as well.
    Last edited by assquatch20; 01-10-2021 at 20:00.

  6. #16
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    Okay here's another question then: What changes would be necessary to get a good hang and rainfly setup if I used the Tensa stand? Seems like the HH hex fly might be too big, not sure yet. Also the suspension system I have might need a little tweaking for that. I'm looking into it myself but it's good to hear from you folks as well.

  7. #17
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    Yes - a cot, like a hammock, looses heat from breezes flowing underneath. So unless the cot has a substantial pad itself , you’ll want to use a pad with it. I have something called a Cot-Tent. It folds out like a cot but has a completely enclosing nylon shell with four screened windows. Plus it has a rainfly. Works real well when hammock trees are not available. But it is only for car camping because it weighs about 20 lbs and packs to about a 3 x 3 ft square.

    Few use the complexity, cost, weight of a compression sack for their hammock or tarp. A basic stuff sack will do. You can just keep the tarp in skins separate from the hammock. They don’t have to live in the same Hennessy bag. A compression sack can be used for a Top Quilt (TQ) or bottom (under) quilt (UQ). But that is also not so necessary. I will use one when I’m kayaking. Because dry bags are … dry … they don’t breath so it’s a little bit of a chore to put a fuffly down bag in one and squish it down while rolling the bag top closed. So I use my Sea-to-Summit bag that has a eVent panel on one end (eVent is like Gore-Tex, breathable but waterproof). The air escapes through that panel as I pull the compression straps. Or I use a bag that has a valve, at the bag's bottom, I can open/close. Again, this is when I need to carry my down quilts over water.

    On day hikes, I use a basic stuff sack. On a longer hike I’d still just use the stuff sack but it would be protected inside my pack. And the pack would be protected with a a liner or cover when needed.

    Your enthusiasm is commendable and I would never want to discourage someone from supporting our cottage industry folks. So I won’t say, “Don’t buy the Tensa4 yet.” but I will say I think you need some time hanging your hammock between trees and learning what angle, height above ground, foot end a little higher than head end, works for you. That way, when you use an “artificial” stand, you will know the hang you are trying to target.

    There are tarp extensions for the Tensa4 and you might also want to consider collapsable poles like REI sells.

    https://tinyurl.com/y438lcqq

    They come in two sizes, 6 and 8 ft extended and collapse down to 22 inches. The 8 ft might be a little big for a backpack carry but maybe not of a motorcycle. Using something like that gives you tarp independence. Maybe you want to cover a picnic table with the tarp for an extended lunch break or to wait out a passing squall. You don’t want to have your tarp suspension dependent on setting up the Tensa4 stand. Or maybe you do. We are now in the realm of decision and experience. We make our choices, we learn. Later, we make the same ones or something different. Your Mileage May Vary, etc.

    You know how often your adventures take you to treeless places. If it is seldom, on those rare times you could tarp camp. But if it is more often, and you can carry it, the portable Tensa4 is pretty sweet. The Tato stand is simpler to me (no anchors required) but that would be for car camping or at home as it is significantly bulkier (time to add a trailer to the bike?).
    Last edited by cougarmeat; 01-11-2021 at 14:24.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  8. #18
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    Once again thanks for the input. I think a stuff sack of some sort would be good for the fly at least. The hammock itself fits in its bag fairly easily but the rainfly in its snakeskins is another matter.

    I got the snakeskins on the fly (not the easiest to get the rainfly in them) with the ridgeline installed even, but not sure I've done it perfectly. I have the whoopieslings.com ridgeline but no guylines yet. The ridgeline has a knot bone on one end and a figure 9 riding a prusik loop on the other, with two prusik loops along the ridgeline. The hex fly has two triangular rings on its ends that I attached to the snakeskin clips as well as the prusik loops. Hard to move the loops with it taught but I guess if it's taught I don't need to. I'm sure this could be done better but it's all I could think of with what I've got here.

    Regarding quilts and sacks, I have to worry about potentially going down in water crossings so my luggage is mostly waterproof, but something to keep quilts protected would be good. I've heard compressing down too much is bad for it. I do have an option to keep it not so tight but then it's a little more susceptible to getting wet, perhaps. Funny you should mention getting a trailer.



    I can put heavier stuff or things I don't wanna compress too much in the trailer box. Keeping the weight low is good as well so poles and cookware and such can go there when I take the trailer. Ideally a tipi and stove will go in there someday as well. Still trying to have a setup such that I can make it fairly comfortably without the trailer, though.

    With the fly, I can get it to maybe air dry a little on the bike, though I'd imagine not much because of the snakeskins. The mesh snakeskins you mentioned would probably be great for that. My boxes and soft saddlebags (not pictured) have some external storage for wet stuff.

  9. #19
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    Too bad you don’t live locally because there is a lot to discuss. The point of the mesh skins is not to allow the tarp to dry, there is very little surface area exposed. The point of the mesh skins is THEY dry faster. The tarp will dry when you hang it out.

    Yes, down doesn’t want to be compressed. But we are mostly talking about long term storage when most use large cotton bags or hang the quilt up from some support. When in a backpack stuff sack or compression bag, it can get scrunched. But it’s usually only for a few days and a few hours during that day. Does it hurt to push that fuffy down into a small bag? Yes - it hurts ME. That fluffy down keeps me warm. I don’t want to compress it, I want to take it to dinner. But I’m sure the down will recover. Note that I am not trying to fit it into the smallest volume technically possible. Just something small enough to pack easily.

    There are numerous methods of suspending your tarp. Do you have the first or second edition of The Ultimate Hang yet? It has examples. Some people like one line from tree to tree with the tarp hanging on that one line. Some like a split line where the line goes from one end of the tarp, around the tree, and back to that same end of the tree. Repeat on the other side. So there are separate lines on each side of the tarp. Some people like sort of an oval that goes around the tree with the ridgeline as one side of the oval and the tarp as the other side. In that case, the line is usually brought over to the the ridgeline of the tarp and held there with mini carabiners or S-biners. With a single line the tarp can be sled back and forth on the line by using hardware like Nama claws or pursik loops connected to the the tarp D-rings (even though they might be triangle shape) and the prusik loops are slid into the desired position.

    It’s sort of like teaching chess. One can cover the value of pieces and pawn structure, the balance of tactical vs positional play, strategies to win, strategies to draw against stronger players, etc. BUT first the student needs to know how the pieces move on the board, what the rules of play are. Basic stuff.

    So lets just talk about the tarp. And considering the tarp, let’s just talk about the ridge line. How do you plan to suspend the tarp ridge line between two trees? I’m asking about what each end of the tarp ridge line is attached to. We can start there. I know what you will do with that figure-9 on the prusik but the “knot bone” puzzles me.

    Here’s what my imagination is coming up with. You wrap one end around the tree and secure it to that “knot bone”. The line continues to the other tree, around that tree, and then locks on the figure-9 which is slid to a convenient position. Then the tarp is positioned on that line as desired by sliding it’s prusiks along that ridge line. When you slide the snake skins off the tarp they scrunch up on the ridge line between that tarp ends and the tree. For fun you could time yourself in putting up the tarp and do it four or five times in a row. I’m guessing you’ll see a clear improvement the fifth time.

    Common lore says to put the tarp up first - because if it’s raining, you can put your hammock up under the tarp. But I find it’s easier to put the hammock up and then I have a better idea of where I want to position the tarp. Of course, if it were raining I’d put the tarp up first. Remember that second set of snake skins you mentioned. You might think of a second tarp - like a WarBonnet MiniFly - for your bike. But for a lot less money I suppose you could just throw a blue tarp over it (and anchor it down).

    Nice look’n bike. It screams, “Take me on and adventure!"
    Last edited by cougarmeat; 01-11-2021 at 22:34.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  10. #20
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    That makes a lot more sense about the mesh skins. I don't suppose it'll be a huge issue but maybe.

    Regarding the down, I thought I could maybe just fold it up a bit and put it in some sort of dry bag in the trailer but for trips where there's no trailer I guess I'll have to compress it a bit more.

    I've got the second edition on the way. Supposed to have more info in it. I'm sure at least a little bit of it will get through my thick skull.

    With the tarp, you figured out how I did it. I tied the prusik loops, to the "D" rings at the ends of the tarp, and attached the snakeskins to the rings as well. I'm not sure how easy it will be to slide the loops but I'll mess with it when it stops snowing here. Maybe I should get some of those little "S" biners instead of tying the prusik directly do the "D" rings. The knot bone is pretty simple but the figure 9 is a little weird to wrap around the tree and itself correctly but it's not rocket surgery.

    I need to do some more research on how you set up a rain fly with poles but I don't imagine it's very hard.

    The bike is definitely begging to go. I have to fix a base gasket leak and upgrade the suspension and seat though. Eventually I'm going to put more dirt-oriented tires and sprockets on it again. Would like to try the Trans-America Trail. If I ever manage to do it maybe I can stop by.
    Last edited by assquatch20; 01-12-2021 at 02:51.

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