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  1. #21
    Senior Member jeff-oh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlTrailDog View Post
    A couple things to consider. The tree bark is the first line of defense for trees to protect itself against injury and disease. Secondly, I'm sure we have all visited campgrounds where either ignorant or malicious folks have damaged trees, often unintentionally. Such as testing how sharp their pride and joy axe is, pounding nails to hang item X, building camp 'furniture', and etc. For me it is a heart breaker to see such damage at campsites. In ignorance or maliciously it is unsightly and often over time kills the trees. Thirdly, trees are a wonderful and valuable asset in campgrounds and rarely are planted but are there through natural growth. Fourthly, it takes a long time for a tree to reach maturity. As convenient as it is to hitch to a couple of trees the most prudent method in a campground is to use artificial assets, i.e. portable stands or poles. What a prime opportunity to build good will between the FS and the hammock community by working together to install suitable structures to accommodate hangers.

    PS: some of 'officials' spent their careers prowling the back country looking for ne'erdowells violating various CFRs. Horrible job, but somebody had to do it. ;-)
    Again, I'll say this goes to the heart of the initial post's question. The governing regulation, and that is what matters is, 36 CFR § 261.69(a). The acts described above are all covered by this regulation and any violation of the prohibitions of this part (261) shall be punished by a fine of not more than $500 or imprisonment for not more than six months or both pursuant to title 16 U.S.C., section 551, unless otherwise provided.

    So you can take the stand that there need to be a 100% ban. Or as I proposed, an actual scientific study be conducted to determine under what conditions do hammocks actually cause measurable damage that is harmful to trees of various species. The question is aimed at the hammock vendors. If bans on hammocks become wide spread will it harm their business? Should they take a proactive stance to create industry guide lines for environmentally sound use of their products, or wait until a bureaucrat feels they must determine when and how hammocks may be used?


    Not really expecting an answer, just thoughts.

  2. #22
    Senior Member jeff-oh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    Yeah I don't understand why people do what they do. Here's a collage of pics I took years ago at a place I won't even mention due to gross overuse already (USFS is part to blame). These were taken within a few minutes, about 200' radius. I could have kept going all day. I can say with certainly, none of these were dead when cut. Not like that would make it OK though. "Brown and down" applies.

    Is that what happened to all the trees you pee'd on, as discussed earlier in the thread?

    Yeah, I don't understand PEOPLE either. Our local SP build a nice changing house and bathroom at the SP beach area. Within a year someone set fire to it. Now there is just grass and the sand beech. Pitiful.

  3. #23
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff-oh View Post
    Again, I'll say this goes to the heart of the initial post's question. The governing regulation, and that is what matters is, 36 CFR § 261.69(a). The acts described above are all covered by this regulation and any violation of the prohibitions of this part (261) shall be punished by a fine of not more than $500 or imprisonment for not more than six months or both pursuant to title 16 U.S.C., section 551, unless otherwise provided.

    So you can take the stand that there need to be a 100% ban. Or as I proposed, an actual scientific study be conducted to determine under what conditions do hammocks actually cause measurable damage that is harmful to trees of various species. The question is aimed at the hammock vendors. If bans on hammocks become wide spread will it harm their business? Should they take a proactive stance to create industry guide lines for environmentally sound use of their products, or wait until a bureaucrat feels they must determine when and how hammocks may be used?


    Not really expecting an answer, just thoughts.
    No I do not think there has to be a 100% ban. I don't think with proper education and depending on location, and appropriate hanging methods for certain locations there really doesn't need to be a 100% ban. Like with most activities there are places and recreation practices that are compatible and other areas and practices where alternative methods should be employed. For instance, at a heavily used FS campground it very likely would be more appropriate to bring or install structures to accommodate hammocks. In the back country where hammock use is far more likely to be few and far between at this point, it really may not necessary to impose a 100% restriction. One thing is probably certain, if a practice causes a notable affect the regulation writers are likely to over do than to under do the regulation.

    Another consideration is it is a human writing the citation and as such usually has leeway on what is going to happen. There are a few CFR that are known as 100% you are going to get a ticket. Examples are leaving campfires unattended, not storing bear attractants in areas where that is required, and (for me at least) having non-certified weed free hay in wilderness areas where it is required. The reason these are 100% is because of the horrific consequences to the environment and critters. Having said that there have been times when I did not write a ticket for Food Storage when it was obvious the person had conscientiously made a sincere effort to comply and S*** happened, like the bear managed to shake one of the trees and the pole or lashings slipped and the panniers slid off the pole. Back to the point, if the hanger is of the mindset like Oneclick pictures demonstrate he is probably going to get a ticket, i.e. a person who has demonstrated little awareness of what she is doing to the site. Conversely, if the person has demonstrated a sincere effort to protect the trees and has a well set up hang, it is more likely that they might not get a ticket or receive a warning.

    One important take away is that it behooves the hanging community to be proactive in education and outreach to the agencies and even be willing to volunteer to install structures in areas where abuse is likely. This commonly happens within the MTB or climbing community. We could learn for their examples.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner76 View Post
    Stone MT SP will give you a map of the camp sites that are hammock friendly. Last time I was at Hammock Beach State Park I could not find any hammock friendly camp sites.
    Stone Mountain State Park has maps of hammock-friendly campsites? That’s pretty cool. As for Hammocks Beach, site 12 works. I took a peek at site 14 and could probably make that work. But definitely site 12.

  5. #25
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    As hammocks gain in popularity I think in time State Parks will build hammock sites or rig stands. Or relent and allow straps. They make gravel tent pads so why not sink some hammock poles in the ground.
    Reckon it comes down to money and policy.
    Trees take a lot of abuse and still thrive. I have been to many campgrounds and parks with screws in trees.Of course a lot depends on the bark and type of tree.
    Some places are open to it and some not.
    We shall prevail. In time.
    I think muddy flat washed out tent pads are the norm but ugly to me. Is it good for the ground? Tit for tat.
    Shug
    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven

  6. #26
    Senior Member JollyRoger70's Avatar
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    Our local state park (Lumber River SP, Chalk Banks Access) has a bunch of hammock stands that were put in by local scouts as Eagle Projects — No idea how they’ll hold up in the long run, and no one has added one to my favorite several campsites yet (need to lean on some Life Scouts, I guess), but they’re useful. They don’t mind us hanging from trees there, though.


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  7. #27
    Senior Member Crazytown3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shug View Post
    As hammocks gain in popularity I think in time State Parks will build hammock sites or rig stands. Or relent and allow straps. They make gravel tent pads so why not sink some hammock poles in the ground.
    Reckon it comes down to money and policy.
    Trees take a lot of abuse and still thrive. I have been to many campgrounds and parks with screws in trees.Of course a lot depends on the bark and type of tree.
    Some places are open to it and some not.
    We shall prevail. In time.
    I think muddy flat washed out tent pads are the norm but ugly to me. Is it good for the ground? Tit for tat.
    Shug

    Utah State Parks have been (surprisingly) very proactive with hammock hangers. They have dedicated hanging sites at a few of the state parks, with some sort of hanging apparatus. Just before the pandemic issues came to be, the SP Manager announced they were expanding the hanging sites to several more parks.

    For what it's worth, I think proactively managing the hanging sites and hanging issues also helps control them in them good way.

  8. #28
    Member draco_1967's Avatar
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    I was at Ridgeway State Park in Colorado this summer, and the camp host said they had a bunch of hammock stands for campers to use when my friend asked if he could hang from the trees. I thought that was pretty cool.

  9. #29
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    Florida has designated hammock sites in some state parks-but guess what-they are used by other campers and probably not available for hangers. It is a move in the right direction, but we're not the normal camper. Most state parks are oriented toward large RVs not even tents any more.
    Tree limbs over a campsite prevent use by a tall RV and are seen as a potential danger if they fall so the sites are clear cut. Forest service usually does better in my estimation, but again some of the concessionaires are opposed to hammocks and want them outlawed (think Doe Lake).

  10. #30
    Senior Member Hang Williams's Avatar
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    Like Trout Unlimited partnering with Fish and Game to do stream improvement projects, I wonder if there will eventually be a volunteer effort to put up stands at campsites beyond the eagle projects mentioned. It would be pretty cool of someone to install them at a few of the backcountry sites in Glacier NP, though I'm not beating down the doors to be the one carrying the concrete in.

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