Looking for my 1st underquilt and can't decide between Apex and UP insulation. Originally was planning on buying the DIY Apex kit from RSBTR but then found the Convector UP quilt from Cedar Ridge, now I don't know which way to go. Anyone have any experience with either. Any thoughts recommendations?
I recently made a top quilt from UP insulation and what I really like is that it behaves just like down. I haven't really tested it yet in the cold but anxious to see how cold I can get it. I built it to target 20*
The idea that it behaves like down but at a cheaper price and possibly better performance in high humidity is what appeals to me. But is it worth the additional price over appex?
Originally Posted by Jamief1122
I didn't realize it cost more than Apex. It certainly is something I have wanted to check out. However, there is one thing that must be said about Apex: there are more than a few people around who have the opinion that down is far better than Apex and seem to have about the same opinion on UP. And maybe they are right, I don't know. However, there are about an equal number of folks that seem extremely pleased with the AHE Apex quilts. I don't think I have ever read a negative review on them, UQ or TQ. And at about 20 oz for the conservatively rated 25ºF UQs( the Jarbidge almost full length, the Ridgecreek for WBRR bridge full length), they seem to be fairly competitive with down regarding warmth to weight. So, Apex does not seem to shabby and many people are happy with it.
Still, I would really like to check out a quilt made of UP. Does it, like down, compress better than Apex? I don't know. But when it comes to UQs, I have an unusual question regarding Apex vs everything else. I have never seen anyone else raise this question, so maybe it is just crazy. But, seems to me that if insulation is expected to loft upwards( i.e. an UQ), and dampness causes even a slight loss of lofting power for down, then would the loft possibly fail to puff up enough to contact the upper shell of the quilt and my back? Thus leaving a gap? Because even a tiny gap would be cold. And with differential cuts, no matter how snug you get them against your back, if the loft is reduced it might not be able to fill that space between outer shell and inner shell. Maybe. Apex, OTOH, is sewn to the inner shell and (in an UQ) lofts downward, away from my back. If it actually managed to lose some loft from moisture, the warmth would be reduced slightly, but there would be no gap. Because it does not have to loft upward in order to touch my back.
Now, I doubt that UP would ever get damp enough to actually lose any loft. But if it did, since it- like down- has to loft upward in an UQ in order to contact my back, Apex might hold an advantage in that regard. And not have such a problem. If it ever is a real problem, I've never heard any one mention it. OTOH, on some of these unexpectedly cold nights we read about, where the UQ does not seem as warm as expected, who knows? Something like that might be contributing. BTW, none of this theory- if it actually is a real thing- would apply to TQs. Even if some loft is lost due to dampness, all of the remaining loft will still drop down and contact my body. There should not be any gap to go along with the loss of loft.
Regardless, as nice as UP sounds to me, there have been plenty of happy campers over the years with CS Apex AHE quilts. And there were a few of us that had/have the original WB Yeti, which had CS XP sewn to the inner dif cut shell. That thing always worked great for me and folks I have loaned it to.
So, I'm not much help. I'm sure the UP would be great, but XP is a part of some great quilts as well. Down compresses a good bit more than XP, and UP might also, but I can't say for sure.
Apex is a sheet, and UP is loose fill, so construction methods are quite different. I happen to use both in some of my hybrid insulated hammocks: the bottom layer of fabric is shaped to fit the hammock by piecing together irregularly shaped panels to which the sheet insulation has been quilted ahead of assembly. I double the thickness of the synthetic sheet insulation along the edges of the hammock. Then I sew that layer to the hammock, sizing it so the insulation along the edges is not compressed and there is an inch or two of space in the middle. Into that space I put a couple of ounces of lofting insulation - either down or UP. It lofts to fill the space. This uses the properties of both types of insulation to advantage in different areas.
More often than not, my choice of synthetic sheet insulation is Primaloft, but Apex works the same, and I've used that, too. For lofting insulation, at first I used down and found it worked well to eliminate air gaps under my back without compressing the insulation next to my shoulders. Based on that success, I tried UP; it does, indeed, act like 650 down. (I have also used 1" squares of Primaloft, cut from the edge scraps of my irregularly shaped panels. This works, but down or UP work better.)
How does this relate to material choice for an underquilt? You can use Apex quilted to one or both layers of fabric or you can use UP placed in tubes formed by baffles between the toip and bottom fabric layers. Karo step type baffles work, too. Leigh-lo quilts sometimes use lofting insulation (down) in tubes along the edges, with a section of Karo step construction (and more down) in the middle.)
Does the UP insulation pack down like a 20* down quilt or is it like an 20* APEX quilt- volume?
My DIY UP TQ (20*) packs down to the size and is about the same weight as my Warbonnet 0* down TQ if that helps with the comparison
Ok Heavyhiker, thanks for the info. that helps.
Apex doesn't compress as much as UP. Up is just a smidge bigger than down compressed. There are a nunch of side by side comprisons of UP and Down. I haven't seen any side by side of Up and Apex but I have seen a lot of Apex and Down comparisons. Apex is bigger compressed. Still not a huge difference to me though.
Winter packs should be larger so fill it with life saving warmth.
I figured that was the way it was regarding compression or volume, though I have not seen the comparisons. For me personally, that is not a huge issue, as it is for some. In fact, I have been on the verge lately of switching back to my old McHale pack. On many of my longer day hikes lately ( the problem with day hikes is that- rather than making overnight camp, I have to pack up and hike back on the same day ), I have wanted to take a number of hammocks and quilts for comparison. This has proven to be a challenge- especially volume wise - with my ULA backpacks which are a bit over 4000 CI/68L, or even with my 4600 ci model. These packs weigh 2.5 to 3 lbs. My stripped down (top pack and top part of the frame removed) McHale still weighs over 5.5 lbs. But even without the top pack, the volume appears to to be well over 50% more, and it carries heavier weights in a superior fashion to most packs I have used. And really, on my day trips, I don't care about 2 or 3 extra lbs, heck I actually want the weight for exercise. And all of that extra volume is sometimes really convenient. And it certainly negates any concerns about some extra volume caused by a synthetic quilt. And even on some multi day trips, and/or winter trips without a pulk, boy does that extra volume come in handy. For extra food and insulation. Whether down or synthetic.
But, I realize many people have one pack to use, or they just prefer to save that 2 or 3 lbs of pack weight at all times, and then the bulk of their compressed insulation becomes a much bigger concern. And any difference between Apex and UP could become significant.
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