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  1. #11
    Senior Member hutzelbein's Avatar
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    For a fixed eye with a locked brummel splice, Samson recommends 2 fids for the bury. This works out to a bit more than 4" for the 7/64" AmSteel, if I did the math correctly.

    3.5 fids are recommended for the bury of the adjustable eye, because the friction of the bury is all that keeps you hanging.

    Depending on what you're planning to do with the dog bone, you could do a shorter bury. You mention locked continuous loops, but consider that continuous loops are doubled up. I have been using dog bones folded in half and pulled through both fixed eyes for years instead of continuous loops at the ends of my hammocks. While I don't see any advantages in shortening the buries, you could probably do it when using dog bones this way without losing breaking strength. But if you are planning to use them as extensions, with one eye on the hammock end and one eye on the tree end, I would stick with 2 fids.

  2. #12
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    "Length of bury: Both Brion Toss and Starzinger recommend that the length of the buried tail should be 72 times the rope’s diameter. This is about three and a half full fid lengths (a full length fid is 21 times the rope’s diameter.) The very slippery Spectra and Dyneema require this long bury. However, for Polyester, about half this length is sufficient."
    (<https://www.animatedknots.com/long-bury-splice-knot>

    As for Dyneema knots, Evans Starzinger and Allen Edwards have been the long time gurus of strict machine testing of dyneema knots and splices.

    Here's Allen --
    The four knots that don't slip or melt

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9GLp1Esins

    Allen's replies to comments below the video are especially informative.

  3. #13
    Senior Member hutzelbein's Avatar
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    When using AmSteel, I would go with Samson's recommendations. I assume they know the limits of their rope best. The recommended measurements can be found here "12-Strand Class II Whoopie Sling for AmSteel®/AmSteel®-Blue". Dutch also has a nice article "WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT AMSTEEL ROPE" that was very helpful to me.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutzelbein View Post
    When using AmSteel, I would go with Samson's recommendations. I assume they know the limits of their rope best. The recommended measurements can be found here "12-Strand Class II Whoopie Sling for AmSteel®/AmSteel®-Blue". Dutch also has a nice article "WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT AMSTEEL ROPE" that was very helpful to me.
    i very strongly agree with this: always start from the manufacturers recommendation if available, and do _not_ generalize from one manufacturer to another. for instance, the dyneema rope i typically use for my dyneema stuff is not samson, but liros/kanirope (which is readily available in europe, at reasonable prices), it is very nice good quality dyneema, but, as i described in another thread, it does come with what seems to be a much "shallower" braid (the angle of the braiding of the strands is more accute than other ropes like the samson, i guess), which makes it necessary to use about 100 x diameters instead of 72x to make a ucr or whoopie work properly. unfortunately liros doesn't provide recommendations (or i was unable to find them), but testing is straightforward enough, although a bit frustrating and a bit costly. on the up side, this rope is also considerably stronger for the same mass per unit length, this makes sense because with dyneema the whole point is that the strength is distributed along the fiber, so when you braid it, the shallower the angle the more strength you will retain (unbraided being theorethically the strongest, with most fibers, which is one reason many static rope core fibers are unbraided, but that's a different story).

  5. #15
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    I believe in creativity, stretching the boundaries between known and unknown. While not endorsed by Samson:
    For a UCR, why not splice a “fat” rope inside of a “skinny” rope, for more grip and less slip.
    For example, 1/8 amsteel as inner bury and 7/64 as the outer bury. And for Zingit and Lashit, 2.2 as the inner bury and 1.75 as the outer bury.
    Your thoughts...

    Boys and Girls, don’t try this at home...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Grappler View Post
    I believe in creativity, stretching the boundaries between known and unknown. While not endorsed by Samson:
    For a UCR, why not splice a “fat” rope inside of a “skinny” rope, for more grip and less slip.
    For example, 1/8 amsteel as inner bury and 7/64 as the outer bury. And for Zingit and Lashit, 2.2 as the inner bury and 1.75 as the outer bury.
    Your thoughts...

    Boys and Girls, don’t try this at home...
    well, because then what's the point of using a lot of 2.2mm line, in order to get strength which is a fraction of that of the 1.75 line? keep in mind that just doing it with 1.75 would make it stronger than if mixed (as the transition at the exit is more gradual), and the burry would be already significantly shorter with just 1.75 than with just 2.2 (mixing them will likely barely shorten the bury compared to just using 1.75, if at all). there just seems to be no gain in mixing them, unless i'm missing something. but if you're curious try it by all means, just make sure you do some destruction testing to verify you haven't sacrificed too much strength (as that's basically the main question)

  7. #17
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    Nothing to do with relative strengths, but I find a thicker rope much easier to use.

    For example, once I tried a Dream Hammock with a thicker amsteel ridgeline, anything else seems sub par. It’s just easier to grip, holds items better - in place and prussic knots stay put better, etc. So, for me, I’d go for useability over most other factors with reasonable safety of course.

  8. #18
    LowTech's Avatar
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    I have an adjustable ridge line that won't adjust as short as I would like because of where they started the bury on the way back.
    Is there any reason that I can't just undo the handle in the tail end, pull it out if the bury, and redo it farther back?

  9. #19
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    My main point is about having fun, exchanging ideas freely, finding new ways to get things done.
    I often admit to guessing, and most of my “new” ideas end up in the dumper. This is true of most of everyone’s new ideas. But the courage to try new things is the only thing that separates us from early EARLY hunter gatherers.
    My main point is not trying to score debate points and not dump on others ideas, but to share ideas, even solutions that might not seem viable.

  10. #20
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    LowTech, I've moved a bury in the way you describe. Works fine.
    I also agree, in part, with both PG and Nanok. Experimentation rules, and testing's a good idea, too. Using two different thicknesses should enable a shorter bury for the same strength - possibly offset by a more abrupt transition at the exit. Interesting speculation on all sides. I like Tpatter's pragmatic approach, too.

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