When I wear synthetic gear I have it works pretty well but personally I have never slept as warm in synthetic bags or UQs.Originally Posted by Norfolk Yeti
When I wear synthetic gear I have it works pretty well but personally I have never slept as warm in synthetic bags or UQs.
Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven
Think it’s been my main issue since winter began, apex just not warm enough for my back.
I like the down jacket. I do it with a slight twist. I always put my down jacket under the top quilt when I go to bed. I might put it beside my torso or put it down by my feet. That way it's nice and warm. When that early morning chill occurs (I agree that it's the body running out of fuel if you have been warm up until that point), I get up to water the flowers and then I slip the jacket on. Except, I put the jacket on in reverse. I slip my arms up through the sleeves, but I have back of the jacket lying on my torso. That way I'm not lying on the jacket and compressing the down. I get the full benefit of the jacket on top of my torso wrapping around my like another "mini top quilt". When I finally get up, I reverse the jacket "normal" style.
Yeah, I am at a total loss to explain this - thats 26 degree F. I have the same UQ and have used it comfortably but so far only to 35. But stacking 2 should certainly have done it.
I do love down. I just recently ordered a 40 degree down UQ during the recent sales to use in combination with my trail winder for cold, wet, windy, weather. I figure down on the inside, apex on the outside. Also gives me the flexibility to take either quilt depending on the temp and weather.
In the end, it’s really about how the gear you have works for you. It doesn’t particularly matter how well it works for someone else.
I’ve just ordered a 20* incubator, hopefully will cover my UK winter needs, and as you say Tpatter, the trailwinder will go on the outside and give flexibility across two uq’s.
Slept in the garden again last night, an extra layer & hot water bottle and had a lovely night.
-3c and frosty drifting to +2c and rain through the night.
Went to sleep very tired and with backache from work and woke up in perfect order!!
Every one has to go by their own experience, of course. And though I have both, I am not really sure how all of that compares. Most of my experience - EDIT: i.e. experience with synthetic quilts - ( in hammocks at least, or actually, it is more my son's experience than mine) was with a beast that was discontinued about 08 or 09, the original WB Yeti insulated with removable layers of Climashield XP, which supposedly was not quite up to the performance of Apex. Though I never could see any dif in the factory specs, AHE says Apex is superior and I trust them. Anyway, that thing had 4 layers of 2.5 oz per sq. yd. CS XP in a dif cut torso length UQ. One layer ( a total of max 3 oz insulation under me, in a roughly 10 or 11 oz total weight(insulation plus shell) UQ, kept me toasty in the mid to high 40s, beside a lake(no wind to speak of). My only layers were cotton jeans and T shirt. And in my older years, I don't consider myself all that much of a warm sleeper. Now, I have some down UQs, but I don't see how I could have beat that performance much, at about the same weight, with down. However, that was a one time event, never tried again, so maybe it was a fluke?
My son, OTOH, has borrowed my CS Yeti a few times, with several ( but not all 4) layers installed. Including on his very first cold night in a hammock, on a Sept trip in the Wind River Mountains, mid 20sF lows. EDIT: along with a TNF 20F rated Cat's Meow synthetic bag on top, maybe used as TQ, can't remember. Even on that very 1st night in a hammock, and all others, he has been consistently toasty. Even with a couple of added layers, that torso length UQ was well under 20 oz. And it has not been determined what the lower limit is, since he was always warm, but never tested below mid 20sF. So, that seems quite competitive with anything in warmth to weight, to me. (volume, of course, is a different story, high fill power down rules in that area). There was a fellow who used to post around here named Cannibal, he was warm with that UQ, all 4 layers at about 20 oz total weight, well below zero F. He was an admitted very warm sleeper, a human furnace, though.
Then there is the ever popular AHE Jarbidge. Almost full length(to about my ankles or maybe mid calf, I am 6'1") at about 20 oz(uses 6 oz/sq./yd CS I think). I have never put mine to the test near the limit. But numerous people here have, and most have been at least adequately warm, some below the rated 25F.
But, for others synthetic is just not as warm as down at anywhere near the same weight, so there you go. IOW, YMMV. There are, however, many variables other than the type of insulation that might skew results. Such as the differential cut of my old Yeti, with that first layer sewn to the shell so as to be very snug against my back- and with no compression of that 1st layer. And the other layers added very carefully trying to obtain the same snug fit without compression. I'm not sure all CS UQ's have such a dif cut to help them maximize the chance of back warmth. Also, just imagine the chances to go wrong when trying to stack UQs with both no gaps and no compression. Tricky!
Last edited by BillyBob58; 12-10-2020 at 11:19.
I hear you BillyBob58, I’m going to try some goose down as I’ve never been fortunate enough to try it in any camping situation...indeed I have an HG premium incubator 20* 850 with a couple ounces of extra fill on order...super excited as I love to winter camp and hopefully the -6c rating will be perfect for my UK winters....I can always boost it with some apex if I’m lucky enough to get some wild cold camping in!!
None of my apex gear will go unused: I have a 7.5oz TQ that is a beast that does seem to push my heat back at me, a 6oz UQ/UQP combo, a 5oz TQ that’s great for spring/autumn and a 4oz underquilt that’s great for our summers.
Guess I’m new to it and just building my experience and obligatory quilt collection !
I’ll report back here when I get the incubator in country.
I look forward to your reports! Maybe I should mention this here, since stacking quilts has been discussed. Some folks like to stack their synthetic quilts on the outside, especially on longer trips. And perhaps these are also the less warm of the 2 quilts, esprcially for the TQ, which might reduce the weight of the synthetic pressing down on and compressing the high fill power down. Which could be avoided of course by having the synthetic on the inside, pick your poison I suppose. But why on the outside? Regardless of how breathable a fabric is(check out Shug's frost bib approach), when warm body vapor contacts air or down or shell fabric that is at the dew point, it condenses into liquid. Having any quilt stacked on another moves the dew point further away from the 1st quilt, perhaps all the way out into the 2nd quilt, perhaps even all the way out to it's shell. So the theory being that if condensation happens in or on that synthetic quilt, way less loft will be lost than if it happens in the down quilt. Also, in my experience, some of my synthetic gear has proven to be very quick drying in addition to resistant to moisture, whether from body heat or sunshine. ( OTOH, the new "dry" downs may also be resistant to loft loss and quick to dry) So, just one more little trick to consider.
Interesting. I had assumed put this particular synthetic UQ on the outside since it is also a protector shell made of argon 90. I have never experienced condensation on the inside of my UQs yet, but I also don’t camp below 32. Lots on the outside due to blowing mist however.
Thanks for the idea, I’ll kee it in mind - hadn’t considered that option.
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