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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by cougarmeat View Post
    Count FurFur, When I started reading your post I wondered, “Why use TWO adjustable suspensions?” If I were you, I’d skip the Whoopie slings and just connect the buckles to the continuous loops (CL) on the hammock. Also, as your hammock is 11 ft long, the usual 83%-86% sag puts the ends about 9 ft apart - not a rule; just a suggested starting place. Given that, I’m guessing your tarp length will dictate the required tree distance. A usual tarp length is 11 ft. So I’d look for trees in the 13 - 15 ft range.

    You can probably estimate that by first measuring the distance of your hiking poles held with your arms stretched out. After you’ve located trees with the approximate distance about 5 or 6 times, you develop an eye for that distance. As you’ve discovered the further apart the trees, the higher your suspension has to be. Once you find the most comfortable sag for your hammock, you can cut a cord/string that distance (plus extra for knots) to tie to the ends of the hammock. I’m not suggesting it has to be “structural” (like made of Amsteel that will hold hundreds of pounds) - you can just use it as a ruler of sorts- to hang your hammock so that line just starts to get snug.

    You didn’t say anything about how you adjusted your underquilt or if you had an underquilt protector (UQP) or tarp with doors. It’s winter in many states now and winter adjustments are in full bloom. That usually means a tarp with doors (closed) and/or setting up the tarp close to the ground to minimize convection heat loss.

    You mentioned working with the suspension system for the hammock but not the suspension of the underquilt below the hammock. If that isn’t right, you will feel icy cold.

    When possible, it’s best to practice outside at home. If things don’t go well, you can always retreat back indoors and contemplate adjustments the next day.

    Winter is an unforgiving time to learn the basics.
    This was some very good advice! I learned the hard way this past weekend that you've got to extensively practice with the suspension that you currently have and not to go with trees too far apart. What I have is complicated and it will definitely be swapped out with continuous loops that I only need one point of adjustability not two. Unfortunately, representatives of Dutch wear misinformed me but I will still conduct business with them because they make stellar products.

    As far as my under quilt goes it is fully adjustable. I have a hammock gear incubator 20 degree. I'm not going to lie, but all those straps and cinches can be confusing. I try to do what shug does in his videos where he jacks the under quilt well above the hammock and then lays the hammock inside of the under quilt. It almost feels like your compressing the down when you do this. I definitely need to do a lot more practicing. I haven't used that hammock in over 2 years.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Rolloff's Avatar
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    It's a bit of catch 22. UQ too loose too cold. UQ cinched too tight and it bunches up allowing cold air in. About that time you can also feel the UQ and it can add or be just as bad as calf ridge.

    At this point I'd set up initially like shug does, then also employ the use of someone else to load the hammock for you so you can visually adjust and fine tune the cinch closures. The secondary suspension just keeps the UQ from accordioning. It doesn't need be tight until you load the hammock. Easier to adjust too, from the outside, with someone providing load in the hammock.
    Signature suspended

  3. #23
    Senior Member
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    Def a learning curve, and practice at home does allow you to nip indoors if you get it wrong, most of us are always tweaking something to make life easier on set up or comfort ,I am lucky in uk because it does not get that cold, but where you guys come from it can be very serious if you get It wrong

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count FurFur View Post
    Turned out to be a Shlt show. Way too many day hikers and weekend warrior campers. It was like a trailer park. That being said, we tried to make the best of it and have a good time....
    I won't comment on the adjustments needed to your sleep setup, but I will comment on the adjustment needed to your attitude. If you were there, you were part of the show. Been out of the game since 2017? Sounds like a weekend warrior camper to me, and those day hikers... they smell funny. Whatever happened to " this land is your land, this land is my land.."?

  5. #25
    Senior Member cmoulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadeye View Post
    I won't comment on the adjustments needed to your sleep setup, but I will comment on the adjustment needed to your attitude. If you were there, you were part of the show. Been out of the game since 2017? Sounds like a weekend warrior camper to me, and those day hikers... they smell funny. Whatever happened to " this land is your land, this land is my land.."?
    lol kinda funny, that.

    I've found something that always works. Hike in 5 miles from just about any trail head. Make a 90° turn either left or right and go 500 yards. Guaranteed solitude. Well, 99.44% of the time.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ~ Gen. George S Patton

  6. #26
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count FurFur View Post
    This was some very good advice! I learned the hard way this past weekend that you've got to extensively practice with the suspension that you currently have and not to go with trees too far apart. What I have is complicated and it will definitely be swapped out with continuous loops that I only need one point of adjustability not two. Unfortunately, representatives of Dutch wear misinformed me but I will still conduct business with them because they make stellar products.

    As far as my under quilt goes it is fully adjustable. I have a hammock gear incubator 20 degree. I'm not going to lie, but all those straps and cinches can be confusing. I try to do what shug does in his videos where he jacks the under quilt well above the hammock and then lays the hammock inside of the under quilt. It almost feels like your compressing the down when you do this. I definitely need to do a lot more practicing. I haven't used that hammock in over 2 years.
    Your actually not as the HG UQs are cut with a differential. Inside fabric allows for some weight and the bottom is cut larger so the down hang hang below and fluff up.
    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven

  7. #27
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    Old Shug-a-man beat me to it by a few hours. No fear of compressing down with HG under quilts - UNLESS you are hanging them upside down. I believe there is a little down collar and each end and that collar should be up - against the hammock. Also, there is a foot and head end. The head end should have the HG tag.

    You have three adjustments to fiddle with - but it doesn’t have to be complicated.
    Assuming you have someone in the hammock - lying in a diagonal position - …

    1) The full length bungee through the side channels. I connect mine to the continuous loop attached to the end of the hammock. I used to use two S-Biners but now put a mini-biner at the head end so I know which is head and which is foot without a lot of fuss looking at the UQ. Depending upon the length of that cord and your hammock ends, you may need to take up some slack in the bungee by tying a knot along the bungee end and clipping behind the knot. As Shug shows in a video, you want it tight enough to lift the hammock a bit, but you are not launching it to the moon, With someone in the hammock, they can tell you when they feel the UQ pressing against the bottom of the hammock. It doesn’t have to do more than touch to eliminate the air gap. But maybe bungee acts differently in the cold. So you could stretch it a little - just not extreme.

    2) the secondary bungee holds the UQ along the length of the hammock. many like the head end of the UQ to come just above their shoulder position. If it is a full size UQ (Not ¾ length), that’s probably not so important as it usually covers a full body length anyway. With hammocks that don’t have a secondary suspension - or even with an HG if you want - you can pick the ends up even more by gathering that primary or secondary suspension and using a cord over the hammock ridgeline to give it a lift at the ends. I connect the secondary suspension to the same S-biner and mini-Biner I use for the primary suspension.

    3) the “gather” bungee at the ends is subject to a little controversy. Long ago, the idea was to cinch it tight and that seemed to make sense looking at an empty hammock. But with somone in the hammock, lying at a diagonal, that pushes out the sides a bit at the foot and/or head end. If that “cinch bungee” was too tight, it would cause a gap to appear as the feet/head pushed out. So keeping that end cinch looser - especially at the foot end - allows the UQ to form more with the occupied hammock shape.

    Now the above is a lot of words - but if you had a hammock, UQ, volunteer, in front of you - it’s pretty much adjust, adjust, adjust - done. Like less than two minutes.

    It’s not pleasant to solve a problem by adding more gear, but if you are setting up by yourself, an underquilt protector (like ZQ2Q sells) is handy. If I had only 1 hammock and 1 UQ and a good coverage tarp with doors I probably wouldn’t get much benefit from one. But I have multiple hammocks (different lengths) and multiple UQ’s (different lengths) and setting up alone, I can't be in the hammock and outside checking the suspension at the same time; I’ve tried. The UQP creates additional wind blockage that allows me to be a bit imprecise with the UQ fit.

    I’m still not clear about what tarp you were using - if it had doors, was guyed down or in porch mode, etc. That makes a big difference in heat loss to.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  8. #28
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    lol kinda funny, that.

    I've found something that always works. Hike in 5 miles from just about any trail head. Make a 90° turn either left or right and go 500 yards. Guaranteed solitude. Well, 99.44% of the time.
    True enough!
    And most of the kids I work with now have no clue why I keep using 99.44% as a benchmark.

  9. #29
    Senior Member cmoulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadeye View Post
    True enough!
    And most of the kids I work with now have no clue why I keep using 99.44% as a benchmark.
    Ha, showing our "vintage"....
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ~ Gen. George S Patton

  10. #30
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    Sorry to hear about the bad experience. Our Scout troop uses Raven Cliffs Falls as our backpacking and hammocking training trip for our newer Scouts every year. As matter of fact we were there on Nov 7 and had a great time. So far the worst issues we’ve faced are boys having never slept in a hammock or having never slept near running creek water. One man’s blessed white noise is another man’s torture.

    A couple of things to consider about Raven Cliffs:
    1 - timing ... lots of people in the area to view the fall colors. Cars had spilled out of the parking lot onto the main highway the weekend we went. Campsites fill up fast and despite the abundance of trees, not all the sites are hammock friendly.
    2 - terrain and wind ... the trail follows the creek all the way to the falls so all the campsites are near water. That combined with the wind rushing down the valley (as the air cools and falls it gets funneled into the valley and rushes down the hill). Those two combined make it feels much colder than the thermometer read out.

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