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Thread: 1000FP

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rweb82 View Post
    In theory, you may be right. But if John over at TrailHeadz is able to source the lighter weight fabrics (as he is hoping), that should help alleviate the issue of the weight of the fabric causing compression. If his 20° 1000fp down quilt is able to keep the user warm at (or near) 20°, then we know that the down is not being negatively impacted by the fabric- I'm sure he'll probably add a certain % of overfill to his quilts (as all the other vendors do).

    If this all pans out, the user would be getting a full-length 20° quilt that is sub-20oz, and on average about 4oz. lighter than a 900/950fp quilt of the same size- which would be great for the UL hammocking community.
    Man, that’d be like getting a 20° quilt for the weight of a CDT that *might* take you down to 50°!


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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammichael View Post
    Good point, Jeff-Oh. It’ll come down to the quality of the design and the level of execution in the build to get the full value out of this mythical unicorn fur, um, I mean 1000FP down!


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    Do you have the same opinions about 950FP down? There are lots of vendors who use that and have been for at least a couple years now. Have you heard any complaints?

    I have a 2 year old Montbell Plasma down jacket with 7D fabric and 1000FP, which is nothing but awesome. I know a garment is a different situation than a TQ (where theoretically the weight of the fabric could compress the loft) or an UQ (where the weight of the fabric compressing loft is not really a valid concern).

  3. #23
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    I haven’t heard any complaints about 950FP quilts, but then again, there is likely some confirmation bias that would dissuade folks who’ve plunked down hefty change for these products from complaining about them out loud to some degree. That said, by the time a maker has figured out how to go from 650FP to 950FP, I’m confident that they have learned what it takes to make a 1000FP that lives up to such lofty expectations! (Sorry, couldn’t resist...)


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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammichael View Post
    I haven’t heard any complaints about 950FP quilts, but then again, there is likely some confirmation bias that would dissuade folks who’ve plunked down hefty change for these products from complaining about them out loud to some degree. That said, by the time a maker has figured out how to go from 650FP to 950FP, I’m confident that they have learned what it takes to make a 1000FP that lives up to such lofty expectations! (Sorry, couldn’t resist...)


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    I see what you did there. And yes, you're probably right about susceptibility to confirmation bias for a certain subset of customers. But there are also customers who really hold their gear to a high standard and will nitpick it and be critical where deserving. Regarding hammock quilts, this is the place you'd hear about it. I just don't think well-established companies like Enlightened Equipment, Hammock Gear, and Warbonnet would continue using high FP 950 down if it didn't perform to expectations (essentially agreeing with your last sentence).

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmc4free View Post
    I see what you did there. And yes, you're probably right about susceptibility to confirmation bias for a certain subset of customers. But there are also customers who really hold their gear to a high standard and will nitpick it and be critical where deserving. Regarding hammock quilts, this is the place you'd hear about it. I just don't think well-established companies like Enlightened Equipment, Hammock Gear, and Warbonnet would continue using high FP 950 down if it didn't perform to expectations (essentially agreeing with your last sentence).
    Yes, I figured if I’d find honest critiques anywhere, it’d be here! Hoping that 1000FP will change the math so that the trade offs between weight and warmth become smaller to the point where one quilt can really cover 90%+ of my needs out here in the PNW!


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  6. #26
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    Humidity is your achilles heel out in that geography my friend.

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by GilligansWorld View Post
    Humidity is your achilles heel out in that geography my friend.

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    Indeed. Fabric choice and moisture management will be key to making sure that the loft doesn’t get compromised.


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  8. #28
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    The 1000FP stuff being discussed here is HyperDry treated down. Maybe not a silver bullet (and there's conflicting info about whether or not this is a good thing for the long term), but something to keep in mind.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rweb82 View Post
    In theory, you may be right. But if John over at TrailHeadz is able to source the lighter weight fabrics (as he is hoping), that should help alleviate the issue of the weight of the fabric causing compression. If his 20° 1000fp down quilt is able to keep the user warm at (or near) 20°, then we know that the down is not being negatively impacted by the fabric- I'm sure he'll probably add a certain % of overfill to his quilts (as all the other vendors do).

    If this all pans out, the user would be getting a full-length 20° quilt that is sub-20oz, and on average about 4oz. lighter than a 900/950fp quilt of the same size- which would be great for the UL hammocking community.
    John and his wife are great people but he does not have an R&D lab at his home based business. I would guess he is using an insulation guide that says a 20* bag should have so much loft, and he fills the bag with whatever it takes to get that loft. Perhaps 1000FP may take less down than 950FP or 900FP or even 800FP but is it really measurable and is the weight savings in down really worth the cost? Using HG's numbers it costs $40 to go from 850FP to 950FP. This saves a whole 29g. This is equal to 1/4" of coffee in the bottom of your mug. So what's the cost to go to 1000FP? another $100.00? to save 15g? That's spit for a whole lot of money.

    Also, is what is being sold as 1000FP really 1000FP? Who knows without independent testing. Independent quality testing has shown that most "Olive Oils" sold at the market are not really olive oil or at best are a mix of some olive oil in canola oils.
    The cost to separate out, by hand, the tufts that could make 1000FP down is very costly. The high FP downs only come from mature geese not used in the food industry, or particular wild breeds of artic water fowl. These feathers are gathered as the birds molt and that is all done by hand. Another item is do 1000FP feathers have enough mass to really break up and stop convection within the quilt? There is a performance trade there on effectiveness because loft and insulation ability are not uniformly correlated.

    Just some points to consider. Do with it as you wish.
    Last edited by jeff-oh; 11-20-2020 at 15:02.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff-oh View Post
    John and his wife are great people but he does not have an R&D lab at his home based business. Nor does he have the ability to test any of this. At best he is using an insulation guide that says a 20* bag should have so much loft, and he fills the bag with what ever it takes to get that loft. Perhaps 1000FP may take less down than 950FP or 900FP or even 800FP but is it really measurable and is the weight savings in down really worth the cost? Using HG's numbers it costs $40 to go from 850FP to 950FP. This saves a whole 29g. This is equal to 1/4" of coffee in the bottom of your mug. So what's the cost to go to 1000FP? another $100.00? to save 15g? That's spit for a whole lot of money.

    Also, is what is being sold as 1000FP really 1000FP? Who knows with out independent testing. Independent quality testing has shown that most "Olive Oils" sold at the market are not really olive oil or at best are a mix of some olive oil in canola oils.
    The cost to separate out, by hand, the tufts that could make 1000FP down is very costly. The high FP downs only come from mature geese not used in the food industry, or particular wild breeds of artic water fowl. So just
    Cost-benefit is pretty subjective. If I were only aiming to cut weight, I’d sleep on the ground, but clearly folks here include other variables in their balancing acts.

    The way I see it, a 16.5-17oz 20° TQ saves ~3oz vs a comparable 20° Nunatak Nano (19.8oz for medium length 52” wide variant) , which is my reference point for the lightest weight, barest bones 20° TQ out there that I’m aware of.

    I honestly can’t think of anywhere else in my kit that I could drop 3oz without sacrificing comfort or performance.


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