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  1. #1
    Back2Basix
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    UQ or CCF for insulation?

    I'm trying to decide if I want a single or double layer hammock. I realize that a single layer will often require an UQ. However with a double layer I can slide in a 1/4"-1/2" CCF pad that is incredibly light and we'll insulating. Anyone care to share their experiences and pros/cons of each?

  2. #2
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back2Basix View Post
    I'm trying to decide if I want a single or double layer hammock. I realize that a single layer will often require an UQ. However with a double layer I can slide in a 1/4"-1/2" CCF pad that is incredibly light and we'll insulating. Anyone care to share their experiences and pros/cons of each?
    You could use a pad in a single or double layer hammock.
    But...once you go UQ, you will never look back at a pad as insulation.
    Shug





    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven

  3. #3
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Especially with gathered end(GE) hammocks, UQs are the name of the game, for most people, regarding comfort and convenience. Also, easier to carry in the pack.

    Some are comfy enough using pads in GE hammocks, and have kept warm way below zero F, but not many are comfy. Some think it ruins the comfort of a GE. Some have terrible condensation problems with pads, some do not. I have not, and if I did I would probably use vapor barrier clothing anyway, which would put an end to that problem.

    I think a torso sized CCF or inflated pad is more comfy used in a pad pocket, than full length. Then I use a separate leg pad inside the hammock which I can move around at will. Or, I have had good luck with something called a Segmented Pad Extender(SPE), I have slept pretty comfy in that a bit under 20F, but those are no longer available, you would have to make your own. But usually, I prefer an UQ or better yet a Pea Pod when using a GE hammock.

    Then again, it is quite a different story when it comes to bridge or 90º hammocks. Then it is anything from " doesn't really decrease comfort much at all" to "my pad improves comfort with this hammock". Very rarely do I hear "decreases comfort compared to an UQ". Some of these hammocks can be used with a pad, an UQ, or both together. Some are made to be used primarily, or even ONLY(Amok), with a pad. And folks report great comfort with them. Here is a Speer SPE being used in a single layer JRB James River bridge hammock, works great:

    ...................................
    Here is the same SPE being used inside a Hammock Tent 90º:
    ..........................

    Here is the HT90 being used with a 2.5" thick Neo Air All Season in the pad pocket of the HT90, with an UQ on top of it just for fun(the pad pocket is designed for 3" thick pads, so 2.5", especially if not fully inflated, leaves me not solidly on the pad, so about at least 1/2 inch of something puffy(or some extra 1/2" thich CCF pad) on top helps fill any gaps. This is always very warm and uber comfy. Even without added insulation on top, I have been warm below freezing :
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 10-05-2020 at 15:25.

  4. #4
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    I have used foam, and it does not work well. Main problem are:
    - Buckles and warps.
    - Acts as a vapor barrier; produces condensation from sweat.
    - Unwieldy in backpack.
    - Most pads for backpacking are too narrow for hammocks.

    Strongly recommend just getting an underquilt instead of spending money on options you will quickly discard later.

  5. #5
    FLTurtle's Avatar
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    Save your money. Get an UQ.

  6. #6
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    May depend on what your intended use for the hammock is. I like SL for backpacking, e.g. WBBB XLC SL with Wooki, except for my Hammocktent 90* which has a pad pocket (I use either a pad, but prefer a UQ in the 90*). As Shug indicated you can still use a pad in a SL.

    However, I prefer DLs for my full time hanging use and for truck camping. The DL ensures extra abuse protection as well as bug protection (I only weigh 170lbs). I can use the DL for the pad in between the DL or use a UQ. Mostly I use an inexpensive synthetic UQ for full time hanging from Arrowhead Designs and keep my down UQs for backpacking and camping.

  7. #7
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    IF you are adventuring where there might not be trees, where you may need to go to ground, then your pad will work both for the hammock and your ground nights - where you string up a tarp and tuck in your TQ. There is no question that the UQ is more comfortable. But the double layer 1) allows you to use lighter fabric and still retain a decent weight load. 2) reportedly is mosquitoes bite through proof. 3) makes use of a pad in a hammock more manageable.

    That said, I started out with a few DL’s, but eventually realized I was using my UQ 98% of the time. My “no trees” concern is when kayak camping where I might end up on a beach. In the kayak, I always bring a pad as a PlanB. I can lay a ground sheet out, put the pad and hammock - single layer - on it, and use poles to suspend a tarp and hang the hammock’s bug net support to keep it off my face.

    But if everything had to fit in a backpack, AND I wasn’t sure I’d have trees every night, a DL hammock would manage the Pad I’d use both for the hammock and the ground.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  8. #8
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    BacktoBasics, It sounds like you don't have a hammock yet, and are trying to decide between dbl layer vs single layer. Let me just re-emphasize something I said earlier: If you think you are going to be using pads for whatever reason: can't afford a quilt yet and already have a pad, will be hiking at places where you sometimes can't hang your hammock,whatever, IMOyou should strongly consider either a bridge or 90º hammock. Whether double or single layer. I think these hammocks work so much better with pads, whether CCF or inflatable, that I would even prefer a single layer non gathered hammock with a pad, rather than a double layer gathered end hammock with a pad, or most of them anyway.

    I posted a pic earlier of CCF pads inside a Speer SPE being used in a single layer JRB James River bridge. But I also tried it with a 2.5" thick, 25" wide inflatable Neo Air All Season. Because of the increase in the center of gravity, I could not lean back into the sides of the hammock and feel secure, as I like to do. I mean, I did it, but I felt a little insecure, and my sides would not be insulated anyway, I would have to put a piece of CCF inside my clothing to cover that small area. Still, despite that 1 negative, it was still quite doable, and comfortable, and very warm. The pad stayed put as I moved around to different positions, and I had no trouble staying on it.







    Now, just for the other side of the story, here is a JRB Greylock 4 on the same hammock, uber luxurious:






    That UQ works great with any hammock I have tried it with, but if you are thinking of using pads, and don't lready have a hammock, I highly recommend a NON gathered end hammock. You can do it with the gathered hammocks, I have done it(with the aid of an SPE). And I was plenty warm and pretty comfy, but in general it is just much easier with non GE style.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 10-06-2020 at 19:17.

  9. #9
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    BacktoBasix, It sounds like you don't have a hammock yet, and are trying to decide between dbl layer vs single layer. Let me just re-emphasize something I said earlier: If you think you are going to be using pads for whatever reason: can't afford a quilt yet and already have a pad, will be hiking at places where you sometimes can't hang your hammock,whatever, IMOyou should strongly consider either a bridge or 90º hammock. Whether double or single layer. I think these hammocks work so much better with pads, whether CCF or inflatable, that I would even prefer a single layer non gathered hammock with a pad, rather than a double layer gathered end hammock with a pad, or most of them anyway.

    I posted a pic earlier of CCF pads inside a Speer SPE being used in a single layer JRB James River bridge. But I also tried it with a 2.5" thick, 25" wide inflatable Neo Air All Season. Because of the increase in the center of gravity, I could not lean back into the sides of the hammock and feel secure, as I like to do. I mean, I did it, but I felt a little insecure, and my sides would not be insulated anyway, I would have to put a piece of CCF inside my clothing to cover that small area. Still, despite that 1 negative, it was still quite doable, and comfortable, and very warm. The pad stayed put as I moved around to different positions, and I had no trouble staying on it.







    Now, just for the other side of the story, here is a JRB Greylock 4 on the same hammock, uber luxurious:






    That UQ works great with any hammock I have tried it with, but if you are thinking of using pads, and don't already have a hammock, I highly recommend a NON gathered end hammock. You can do it with the gathered hammocks, I have done it(with the aid of an SPE). And I was plenty warm and pretty comfy, but in general it is just much easier with non GE style.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 10-08-2020 at 09:10.

  10. #10
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    While my hammock is first choice, I don't mind sleeping on the ground or in shelters at all. I usually carry a shorty (47") thermarest prolite self inflating pad - works on the ground or in a hammock. I always have a cut down 6-8 section z-rest ccf pad, no matter what sleeping arrangements I'm expecting - supplements the pad in the hammock or on the ground.

    UQ's are the bomb in a hammock, but pretty useless for any other purpose.

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