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  1. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Hammock
    Dutch chameleon / Banyan
    Tarp
    Cubin fiber
    Insulation
    HG UQ TQ / loco UQ
    Posts
    84
    Great conversation guys. I like all the points you've brought up bill. Having all open considerations is good and not ruling out the possibility of going to the ground is helpful. To your point about what is important to myself....I have wrestles leg syndrome so i hate sleeping on a pad because I end up moving too much and never stay on the pad. I wake up way too often because of that. This would only be exacerbated in the winter. I also hate being confined in a mummy bag whether in the air or on the ground. This is largely why I found hammock camping inviting.

    After trying hammocks I found them much better which made it possible for me to enjoy backpacking. This was not without a few draw backs that I still struggled with. One of which was the hyper extension i experience in all of the best hangs. The other draw backs are so minimal they are not worth me caring about, but the hyper extension is something that I just hate dealing with. Which brings me to finding out about bridge hammocks and deciding to try them out. I saw the banyan introduced and decided what the heck, ill give it a try. I spent all summer working in the ADK and instead of heading back to the hotel at the end of the work day, I'd pull up to the nearest camp site with some wood in the back of the truck and just hang. After about a collective 15 nights of use, I can confidently say, I'm a bridge guy. I can roll around and sleep anyway I want and be comfortable. No hyper extension, my feet can spread, and so on. After having experienced that, I just cant go back. I still have my GE hammocks that I will use when going with my wife since we double Dutch and my wife prefers the GE. I'd do anything to make her more comfortable. She doesn't come out much and I like her to enjoy herself. However, when I go with friends, that bridge hammock is the real deal for me. I want to figure out the best way to utilize the bridge hammock in deep winter so I can still enjoy it. The GE hammock was just so easy to be warm in. I've been in -10 and felt like I was in a heated house. I plan to use the bridge this winter.

    What I've learned from these posts, is that I should consider bringing a pad to sleep on because they might be more efficient in the winter than a beefed up underquilt? I just bought a locolibre -20 to pair with my normal 0 degree 2 ounce overstuffed top quilt from hammock gear. Was that the wrong choice? Should I get a pad to go along with my bridge hammock? Are pads better in general for a bridge hammock in cold weather?

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Valpo, IN
    Hammock
    Towns-End Luxury Bridge
    Posts
    1,746
    Quote Originally Posted by OG Honey Badger View Post
    Great conversation guys. I like all the points you've brought up bill. Having all open considerations is good and not ruling out the possibility of going to the ground is helpful. To your point about what is important to myself....I have wrestles leg syndrome so i hate sleeping on a pad because I end up moving too much and never stay on the pad. I wake up way too often because of that. This would only be exacerbated in the winter. I also hate being confined in a mummy bag whether in the air or on the ground. This is largely why I found hammock camping inviting.

    After trying hammocks I found them much better which made it possible for me to enjoy backpacking. This was not without a few draw backs that I still struggled with. One of which was the hyper extension i experience in all of the best hangs. The other draw backs are so minimal they are not worth me caring about, but the hyper extension is something that I just hate dealing with. Which brings me to finding out about bridge hammocks and deciding to try them out. I saw the banyan introduced and decided what the heck, ill give it a try. I spent all summer working in the ADK and instead of heading back to the hotel at the end of the work day, I'd pull up to the nearest camp site with some wood in the back of the truck and just hang. After about a collective 15 nights of use, I can confidently say, I'm a bridge guy. I can roll around and sleep anyway I want and be comfortable. No hyper extension, my feet can spread, and so on. After having experienced that, I just cant go back. I still have my GE hammocks that I will use when going with my wife since we double Dutch and my wife prefers the GE. I'd do anything to make her more comfortable. She doesn't come out much and I like her to enjoy herself. However, when I go with friends, that bridge hammock is the real deal for me. I want to figure out the best way to utilize the bridge hammock in deep winter so I can still enjoy it. The GE hammock was just so easy to be warm in. I've been in -10 and felt like I was in a heated house. I plan to use the bridge this winter.

    What I've learned from these posts, is that I should consider bringing a pad to sleep on because they might be more efficient in the winter than a beefed up underquilt? I just bought a locolibre -20 to pair with my normal 0 degree 2 ounce overstuffed top quilt from hammock gear. Was that the wrong choice? Should I get a pad to go along with my bridge hammock? Are pads better in general for a bridge hammock in cold weather?
    When I 'talk'- I generally try to do so from the point of view of an unlimited quiver of gear. That way we can discuss the best options regardless of cost or what you already own. I also tend to lean towards a backpacker's perspective with a mildly ultralight bent. Real winter camping is something you can't purchase your way out of...

    That said- I'm a pretty practical fella too.
    Use what you have. Don't solve problems you don't have.

    If you're committed to the bridge- then build your kit around the bridge and solve any problems that arise along the way.

    Bridges sleep cooler. I would say I sell at least 2:1 to folks in the southeast USA vs anywhere else for that very reason. That's just a simple fact of life.
    All else being equal it is probably one of the colder sleep systems I can think of. Pretty much every sleep system I've ever used is warmer/easier to insulate than a bridge, that includes cowboy camping.

    I would call that 'my problem' In that I am more bothered by the problem of insulating a bridge in deep winter than I am bothered by not using the bridge. It's also only a few night a year problem for me in Chicago area to be blunt. As you say- a gathered end is pretty easy. If I have a single weekend or two a year... I spend more time debating which scotch or bourbon to carry and just stuff the easy gear in the pack. I don't want to be bothered by gearing up as I'm not bothered enough by the less than perfect sleep... and as mentioned there are times that it's perfectly good sleep when the snow is right.

    But for you- you're calling any other sleep option 'your problem'. So your choice is bridge or bust.

    There was a fella here and on white blaze that went by 'duct tape' as his screen name who spent quite a bit of time in the Adirondacks in the winter. He swore up and down on foam pads. I tend to agree. In theory- when you start getting to 20 below zero- you can't screw around much. Foam can't fail, won't crack in the cold, won't spring a leak. -20* is not a great time to find out the shock cord on your UQ lost it's 'umph' or that your quilt stacking plan didn't come together. It's also not a great time to find out that the little bit of extra wind flowing under a bridge creates a vastly different equation than tossing up a small snow wall and laying on the snow presents. That's not figuring the micro climates, down drafts, and katabatic zones in the mountains either. And the recent addition of the diving polar vortex invading randomly from the north is another wildcard that can catch you or the weatherman off guard.

    The worst I was out in personally was -20*f with -60*f windchill. On a pad, in a mummy. It works. It's safe. It's predictable.

    SO... bottom line. I consider below zero a serious bit of business worth taking **** seriously. I don't like to be the guy who tells folks to go for it so I can read about them in the obits over coffee.

    BUT... there is no reason you cannot work on safely pushing your chosen system. We aren't quite there and this fall and winter is a good time to go for it.
    Use what you have- practice stacking your underquilts and top quilts now. See what combo's work, what is overkill, and maybe what you might need to add.

    Solve problems as you go.
    Heavier shock cord is a common problem worth addressing in your winter quilts. Using a 'pick me up' like I do on my bridges can further resolve that issue.
    As mentioned- go heavier than you think on the top quilts.
    Maybe a sock is worth it to you... maybe not. I'm not a fan personally...some swear by them. I tend to think it's more of a 'last piece of the puzzle' equalizer. It reduces a few variables and can help ensure your pile of quilts stays more or less where you wanted it. I'd rather carry the extra insulation for the weight... but that's me. Some figure sock goes along and the tarp stays home... no rain expected at zero and the sock can shed the snow... I have a tarp I can seal up like a sock... so to an extent I suppose I cheat, lol.

    Most importantly- What is your plan if your plan doesn't work?
    I don't care what it is- but you should.

    The beauty of a pad with a bridge FOR ME... you can always drop out to the warmer ground. If you don't understand why the ground is warmer, and why that option can solve many serious problems... worth researching it yourself. It is not the only plan of action... I just know it's a pretty foolproof one. I can slap the pad down, pile ALL my quilts around me, and easily pick up 20-30* of warmth that way. So even though I am 'geared' to zero or so in the bridge with UQ's and top quilts... if that isn't quite there for me... the Xtherm is my cheap insurance to get me to -20 or lower. Add a hot water bottle and I can keep on going.
    So rather than try to 'quilt up' all the way to -20 or lower... I just add the pad to my zero degree system, make sure I bring a platypus or nalgene that can handle the hot water... and call it a night.
    That covers the 80/20 rule for me in that 80% of the time it works well. 20% of the time it's less than ideal but it's good enough.

    Hot water in bladders, chemical packets, getting a good fire going, or the simplest plan of going back into the house, car, or cabin during a tune-up trip are all good plans too.
    I'm a huge fan of safely working your way into deep winter via a near to hand safe place to bail out/warm up.

    There isn't a right answer per say... but there are some choices that are dumber than others.
    Go slow, go safe, troubleshoot as you go.

    Acclimate to the weather as the season builds... you can add 20* to your sleep system just by simple dint of your body being out in the cold for a decent amount of time prior to going on a trip. Jumping off the couch you will always be WAY colder than if you've been working outside for weeks and sleeping outside for a time. Specially if you fattened up over the holidays or got a bit softer overall. If you only have a weekend out... then figure you're not acclimated to the cold.





    PS- I also type my posts assuming they will sit here for a while. As a result I don't go overboard to make them personal. Sounds like you personally have enough winter experience to know much of what I'm saying above... so nothing personal OG Honey Badger. But the person digging this up next winter or ten winters from now might not... so excuse a little of the generalities and over cautions about winter camping.

  3. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Redmond, Oregon
    Hammock
    WB Ridgerunner
    Posts
    50
    It's all about the under quilt! I have a 20° under quilt and when I do winter camping I bring one of the cheap Costco quilts and I sewed little loops on the corners and I just fold it in half lengthwise and lay it as an extra under quilt I've been down to zero degrees and been toasty!

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  4. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Hammock
    Dutch chameleon / Banyan
    Tarp
    Cubin fiber
    Insulation
    HG UQ TQ / loco UQ
    Posts
    84
    Thanks for the reply Bill. I enjoy reading your posts in general. Yes I am largely aware of and have experienced most of what you talked about. I like your notes about the pad being so helpful. I may end up taking your advise on that. I have an xtherm that I use for ground sleeping. I might bring it for an insurance policy like you suggest. Either way ill be experiencing it this winter for myself. I've got to try it out for myself and like experimenting. When I do, ill definately be posting it on my YouTube channel so others can see the results. In case your curious, stay tuned to "abundant adventures" this winter. Hopefully it goes well.

  5. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Lake Minnetonka Minnesota
    Hammock
    WBRR
    Tarp
    Kelty Noah
    Insulation
    DIY 0* HG 0*
    Suspension
    Hg daisy chain
    Posts
    62
    I made a , I don’t know what to call it lol, like a top quilt cover? I took a Costco quilt and I sewed a tube on the end to receive the bridge foot end bar, and then I ran shock cord in a channel along the sides and the shock cord attaches at the head bar. So it’s essentially a blanket That drapes over my bridge and I pull it up to chin height The shock cord stops it from sliding around and lets me get in and out easily. It adds a lot of warmth I’m pretty happy with it. It completely seals all the heat in. I’m working on an apex part for under my head and shoulders to complete the cocoon.

  6. #16
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janette View Post
    I made a , I don’t know what to call it lol, like a top quilt cover? I took a Costco quilt and I sewed a tube on the end to receive the bridge foot end bar, and then I ran shock cord in a channel along the sides and the shock cord attaches at the head bar. So it’s essentially a blanket That drapes over my bridge and I pull it up to chin height The shock cord stops it from sliding around and lets me get in and out easily. It adds a lot of warmth I’m pretty happy with it. It completely seals all the heat in. I’m working on an apex part for under my head and shoulders to complete the cocoon.
    Does it go under the hammock as well? If so, kudos to you, sounds like you have rigged the first Pea Pod for a bridge!

  7. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Lake Minnetonka Minnesota
    Hammock
    WBRR
    Tarp
    Kelty Noah
    Insulation
    DIY 0* HG 0*
    Suspension
    Hg daisy chain
    Posts
    62
    No it stays on top but it drapes over the sides so it does form a sealed pod

  8. #18
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Tupelo, MS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janette View Post
    No it stays on top but it drapes over the sides so it does form a sealed pod
    OH, I see. Sounds like- just like the old Pea Pod(which wrapped entirely around a gathered end hammock) used to do - it will do a good job of preventing any drafts. What is insulting you back and butt?

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