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  1. #11
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    Ok this is what I understood after reading through all of the comments several times, watching the videos again and practicing both splices. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    I was originally confused because I thought the Continuous Loops made by TheBrewGuy incorporated a Locked Brummel before burying the ends. I don't know how I got that idea but it may have been from his use of the word "lock" during the video. However the continuous loops are *not* a locked splice. The loop will not hold unless you bury the tag ends. Once the ends are buried the loop will safely carry a load.

    The UCR made by TacBlades *does* incorporate a Locked Brummel before you bury the tag end. The Locked Brummel would hold if you were to use the fixed eye without burying the tag end; however it would only hold 40% - 60% of the breaking strength of the rope. (From what I understood this was the mistake made in the fatal sailing accident I referenced previously.) It is the long bury of the tag end, not the Locked Brummel, that allows the splice to carry the load safely. The purpose of the Locked Brummel is not to carry the load but to prevent the fixed eye from coming apart when not under tension.

    Thanks again to all of you for your comments. I really appreciate them because when I'm learning new skills I prefer to understand them as thoroughly as possible instead of blindly copying someone else.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cougarmeat View Post
    There was one YouTube that discussed two styles of a CL. One had the bury/tail of side A into Side B, the other, after making the lock, folded the tail of Side A back into Side A. The second method creates a small telltale bump at the splice. The comparison video mentioned the difference between a single user who only makes a relatively few CL’s vs a commercial enterprise who may make hundreds. I mentioned that the preference may have more to do with economy - the folded back style took less Amsteel. It was also more “pull apart-able” proof. Except I can’t imagine a scenario where something would grab the side-A into side-B style enough to pull it apart. And it’s so simple to just rotate that section inside a channel or folded up in some hitch.

    In either case the strength (hold) level of either style was far in excess of any expected human load.

    It’s good to note, as other pointed out, that maybe you are watching a video of two different products rather than two ways to make one product - though again, there are two different ways to splice a CL.
    I recall that video and reference it often. I found it informative. I believe he is a member here but can't recall his handle.
    https://youtu.be/QSyLAO92iHs

  3. #13
    Senior Member cmoulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcliff View Post
    I recall that video and reference it often. I found it informative. I believe he is a member here but can't recall his handle.
    https://youtu.be/QSyLAO92iHs
    Around 4 min discusses the potential with "crossover method" to pull out the tucked tail.

    No offense, but in real life this is, for all practical purposes, impossible if the thick portion of the loop is larksheaded into the hammock channel, and very, very, very unlikely in any event.

    In the last year or so there was a thread here on HF where somebody reported some failures with CLs that were made using the 180° method. I don't recall the resolution of that episode but I suppose it's searchable if someone is interested enough.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Around 4 min discusses the potential with "crossover method" to pull out the tucked tail.

    No offense, but in real life this is, for all practical purposes, impossible if the thick portion of the loop is larksheaded into the hammock channel, and very, very, very unlikely in any event.

    In the last year or so there was a thread here on HF where somebody reported some failures with CLs that were made using the 180° method. I don't recall the resolution of that episode but I suppose it's searchable if someone is interested enough.
    I agree. The likelihood of a pull out is....never mind, different topic.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SutterButtes View Post
    Ok this is what I understood after reading through all of the comments several times, watching the videos again and practicing both splices. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    I was originally confused because I thought the Continuous Loops made by TheBrewGuy incorporated a Locked Brummel before burying the ends. I don't know how I got that idea but it may have been from his use of the word "lock" during the video. However the continuous loops are *not* a locked splice. The loop will not hold unless you bury the tag ends. Once the ends are buried the loop will safely carry a load.

    The UCR made by TacBlades *does* incorporate a Locked Brummel before you bury the tag end. The Locked Brummel would hold if you were to use the fixed eye without burying the tag end; however it would only hold 40% - 60% of the breaking strength of the rope. (From what I understood this was the mistake made in the fatal sailing accident I referenced previously.) It is the long bury of the tag end, not the Locked Brummel, that allows the splice to carry the load safely. The purpose of the Locked Brummel is not to carry the load but to prevent the fixed eye from coming apart when not under tension.

    Thanks again to all of you for your comments. I really appreciate them because when I'm learning new skills I prefer to understand them as thoroughly as possible instead of blindly copying someone else.
    i think you got it exactly right, with just one note: using an actual locked brummel is a simple thing to do, and adds security, there's no logical reason not to do that. doing it without the locked brummel, one should lockstitch the splice to stabilize it. the possibility of the splice coming apart when not loaded is not just theorethical, it is quite real, especially when the splice is hidden inside the channel of a hammock which is stuffed in a stuffsack 80% of it's operating life (unload, stuff, pull out, load, repeat, this is the typical usage cycle of the camping hammock, and also the perfect way to make a splice that is not locked to come apart gradually). the actual likelihood of this to happen in the case of hammocks is unknown as i don't think anybody did any repeatable/controlled testing on this, but you can understand why nobody did: it's a waste of time, you just stabilize the splice and not look back; all manufacturers that supply continuous loops for hammocks lock them (seems some of them at least, based on nicholas' research from that youtube video linked here, use a locked brummel), i can understand why, it would be insane not to, i would not sell or give away to anyone a splice which is not secured to use for supporting human weight, even if the risk might be small, the stakes are too high.

    just a side note: i researched the locked brummel for continuous loops extensively at some point, trying to find a way to _not_ have the bump, i hate that bump and the 180 turn. of course, it's topologically impossible to do a locked brummel for a continuous loop "inline" (without turning 180 degrees), so it's either the bump or stitching to lock the splice. i find that bump esthethically offensive and inellegant "engineering wise" as well, so i would sooner stitch it for my own purposes, but i still would recommend the locked brummel with the bump, if no stitching. i prefer to use some sort of softshackle rather than an actual continuous loop these days, so i basically don't splice continuous loops almost at all these days, but for whoever does use them (or any load bearing splice for that matter), the splice must be stabilized either by stitching or locked brurmmel, and should be inspected from time to time like all load bearing gear should be.
    Last edited by nanok; 10-12-2020 at 08:59.

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