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  1. #21
    Member kanazky's Avatar
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    Underquilt should almost lift the hammock slightly and sinched in on the ends to not let air flow between you and the hammock. Every time I fail at this I wake up in the night cold.

  2. #22
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    I really wonder about the advice about lifting the hammock up with the UQ now. I keep hearing I should but then a recent reply said not to with a synthetic UQ. Most people seem to have down UQs. I did loosen things up yesterday as one reply said. I was warm but as mentioned, it wasn't a 'real' test, as the temps were much warmer.

    I wasn't aware there was controversy on synthetic bags for back warmth BillyBob58. I think it's kinda obvious that it would, no? Down gets its warmth from all that nice loft, while synthetic insulation is much much smaller and denser to begin with, so less to compress and 'loose'.

    And thanks for the tip about the brain! Believe it or not, I was thinking of that this morning, because I went to bed without my balaclava as it was so warm (actually, I wanted to put it on, but I fell asleep while watching a movie and woke up an hour later with the headphones and glasses still on ). In the previous cold nights, I always went to sleep with the balaclava on and a beanie standing by. I never put it on when going to sleep though, as it was always way too hot, kinda like the feet burning up when going to bed. So yesterday night, I kept the two sleeping bags, but no socks and I opened the inner 40F bag on the bottom and to go to sleep I even stuck them out of the 'top quilt 0F bag'. Btw. not so sure I can trust that 0F rating on that bag. Pretty sure that's not a comfort rating but a survival rating

    Anyway, today I wasn't cold when waking up during the night or in the morning at all. When I got up around 6:30 though I did notice that my head was very cold (it's still just 50F ). Since you seem to confirm that it's a lot about the head I might have to just put that beanie on right at the first pee break (when usually I'm still warm, just gotta pee ). And the logic makes sense - I know that my body is really great at conserving energy to 'save' itself while sacrificing limbs . That's why I have a Ushanka style hat for winter (not talking hammocking here now, just regular Canadian winter), which is the only hat that I've ever owned that keeps my head warm in windy or -40F/C weather! Without that even my down jacket doesn't really help.

    So as for VB, as I've read before and you mention here, since they sweat a lot, if I can stand the warmth, I guess even just insulating those should help with the rest too?

  3. #23
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arutha View Post
    ..................
    So as for VB, as I've read before and you mention here, since they sweat a lot, if I can stand the warmth, I guess even just insulating those should help with the rest too?
    Well, VBs are a whole new ball game, it's like doing things in reverse from what we have all been traditionally taught. Most people won't even consider them, but there are a few of us here who have used them with great success. If you are going to go that route, it behooves you to understand the theory. It's not rocket science, but there is a way to do it right and a way to do it wrong. And if done wrong, you will probably end up both wet and cold. Worse case scenario(in my experience) is- if done right- you might end up wet but still very warm. Done exactly right(avoiding to much insulation, venting) I end up at either normal or maybe feeling a bit humid, but as always: warm. Once at +6F, using a 25F TQ's footbox, lined VB socks, wool socks and synthetic REI booties, my feet were over heating and sweating all night. ( and oh yeah, a JRB down hood) The right way to have done that would have been to just remove the booties, or the wool socks, or both. But I was too lazy and just went to sleep. Slept all night toasty warm. Felt like my feet were sweating. Next morning, when I pulled the VB off it felt slightly damp, but evaporation caused rapid drying. The rest of my body, where I did not feel like I was over heating so bad, under the VB clothing, felt pretty dry. But the point is, even if I had been sweating, I was guaranteed to stay warm with all insulation outside the VB remaining bone dry.

    There are several long threads on this subject here at HF, if you decide you want to learn more about it. But if you want to try a down and dirty quick experiment, just put on the thinnest pair of socks you can find, preferably synthetic, but anything will work. Get a couple of bread bags and put them over those socks. If needed, get a couple of rubber bands to hold the socks up. Then put some loose wool socks over the bread bags. Or, skip the socks and just put yur VB coverd feet down into the footbox of your TQ or bag. Put it too the test. Worst case: you end up with some cold wet feet, and have to pull all of the wet stuff off and start over or go inside. But I doubt it.

    Heck, for that matter, just try it in your house! Put those bread bags on over some thin socks, with or without thicker, warm socks over those, and sit around in the house for a few hours and see what happens. Maybe good, maybe bad, but totally safe. Have fun!

    PS: if you end up with wet(but hopefully and likely not cold) feet, just consider: how much of that moisture are your feet putting out all night anyway? And would you rather have that moisture contained next to your skin, or being wicked into or condensing in your outer insulation, which is often below the dew point?
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 09-23-2020 at 21:35.

  4. #24
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    Note that not all UQ’s are made the same. Some, like those from Hammock Gear, are cut so that cinching the top of the UQ against the bottom of the hammock doesn’t compress the loft. I don’t know of a synthetic fill UQ made that way. So with some, you have to be careful not to cinch it too tight. It really helps if you can find a volunteer to get inside the hammock so you can adjust the UQ suspension. Starting from everything loose, I’m sure the occupant will be able to detect - as will you by sight - when the UQ starts to do it’s job.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  5. #25
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cougarmeat View Post
    Note that not all UQ’s are made the same. Some, like those from Hammock Gear, are cut so that cinching the top of the UQ against the bottom of the hammock doesn’t compress the loft. I don’t know of a synthetic fill UQ made that way. So with some, you have to be careful not to cinch it too tight. It really helps if you can find a volunteer to get inside the hammock so you can adjust the UQ suspension. Starting from everything loose, I’m sure the occupant will be able to detect - as will you by sight - when the UQ starts to do it’s job.
    I have a synthetic UQ made that way, but it has not been available for other than us privileged folks for a good 10 years now. And which one is that? Drum role please: The WB Yeti. Yep, the first few Yeti's that were made before WBG ran into trouble sourcing Climashield XP. He had trouble getting it, so he changed his design to down only. But that differential cut, torso length CS Yeti was a real winner, and still is. I still have it, must be at least 11 or 12 years later, and it still works without fail. It had 3 removable layers of CS and one sewn in perm layer. I'll never forget the time I used just the one layer, which amounted to about 2.5 oz of insulation, roughly 10 oz total weight for the UQ, and still was plenty warm one night into the very humid mid-high 40s, just wearing cotton T shirt/blue jeans, and using 30 year old 40F synthetic TQ. Not too shabby!
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 09-25-2020 at 14:21.

  6. #26
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    I feel you. Tent or tarp or hammock or shelter or park bench, it's just way easier to stay warm than to get cold and try to warm up again! I'm new to hammocks, so these are the observations of a rookie who has encountered the same kind of thing.

    If you're coming from tents--especially double wall tents--you might find that you need to make a few adjustments to your technique and routine to get the most out of hammocks. As you know, tents provide a pretty foolproof, stable microclimate that your body can heat to well above the ambient temperature. They're on the ground (which is often warmer than the air on fall and winter nights). They block the wind (which can rob warmth). And they're pretty easy to regulate. You're probably doing dozens of tiny things to make tent life comfy, without even thinking about it.

    Hammocks can do all this too, but I'm finding that when the temps dip, they tend to reward attention to all the little details: Is your tarp rigged up so it spills the wind? Are you using slope, trees, site orientation to shield yourself from the weather? Is your UQ correctly positioned? (I went straight to the wookie for how foolproof it is but still need to give it a quick tug to reposition now and then.) Can your insulation and clothing breathe and vent? (A bit of clamminess really comes back to haunt you in the wee hours.) Are you getting damp enough air off the St Lawrence to necessitate a UQ protector?

    Other tricks I've found helpful during my rookie year:
    > For me, a full length z-rest provides a bit of structure, which I like, and also traps heat closer to your body. Not required, but I do sleep warmer with one.
    > You can try layering a blanket under you or slinging it between the hammock and the UQ. If you do sleep warmer this way, it might indicate that your UQ has some air gaps or is compressed beneath you.
    > If you have the luxury of being able to carry a thermos, get one ready before bed. Then you can drink something hot when you wake up to pee.

    For me, I'm discovering that I sleep so much better in a hammock and so getting everything dialed in is worth the extra effort and experimentation

  7. #27
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    Thanks for your insights. The thermos might be a good idea, just to warm you up again during the night. As you said, getting warm after being cold is the hard part. When going to bed, it's rather too warm but towards morning it gets tricky (and cold).

    As for site, orientation and such, I'm a bit limited in that the backyard only has usable trees in two places and they go in the same direction. Though they are on opposite sides with different surrounding features. I was doing this UQ stuff in the location that has one larger tree and I was rigging the tarp so that there was not much spacing between it and the tree for exactly those kinds of reasons.

    I have used something like that Z-rest you mention before I got an UQ. Very fiddly, even in the double layer XLC. Part of the reason why I did go for an UQ in the end. Warmth wise it was good, though never tested alone in the lower temps I was mentioning on here.

    Not close enough to the St Lawrence for damp air from that I would gather. I'm about 4km (~2.5miles) from the waterline and we're both uphill in general and behind some 'rolling hills', but in the lower parts, e.g. the fields ~2km from here we have quite a bit of fog in fall/spring. Lots of trees in general though where I am. The Trail Winder is supposed to be an "insulated UQP" as far as I understand actually but many including me just use it as an UQ.

    Will have to fix my tarp now first, before trying more outside. It had an accidental run in with an EMT conduit (DIY Tensa stand)

  8. #28
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    I've got sort of an update. I've since slept warm ish outside to 30F as I've mentioned on a similar thread from someone else. I think it's a combination of getting used to it and the sort of 4am thing. Currently I'm out in the yard at 17.5F which is basically what my SLD Trail winder is rated to. I did have to put a blanket under my chest (got the double layer XLC which is awesome for this) and the sit pad is under my feet but this way I'm toasty. Watching Netflix without a flinch I doubt I'd make it through a night, which is probably just me being on the cold side meaning I'd sleep for some time and then be cold and/or bail. It's funny how much having long John's on and the sit pad under the feet can do. I was cold at the feet until I put them on and the sit pad under the feet and now it's fine. So just in case anyone is wondering I still recommend Jared and the Trail Winder, no questions asked. Will combine with a HG incubator 40F (if it arrives by X-mas) to conquer the Canadian winter

    Also if anyone wonders what some good boots would be, at leat here in Canada I can recommend Baffin. The SO has had some Baffin -40 rated boots that I "borrowed" for snow shoveling last year and this year I bought my own. Even after hours of sitting out in the cold below the hammock I get warm feet in them just walking the 30 meters from the hammock back into the house. For 20F walks around the neighborhood they're a bit warm at this temp to be honest but my Danner Recon are nice and toasty for that.

    Greeting from Montreal to everyone under clear skies.
    Last edited by arutha; 12-08-2020 at 00:16.

  9. #29
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    arutha,

    hello from vermont.

    i sleep in my BBXLC with the zero degree wooki and last winter on a night that was -15F i put a sock around it with a piece of diy insulation made from HVAC insulation under the wooki inside the sock. i tossed a blanket over the ridgeline and got in there under a zero degree burrow.

    in the morning my companions who had been staying inside the heated cabin sent someone up the hill to tentatively check that i wasn't dead.

    nope. it was a lovely night's sleep. there was some snow inside the hammock, but i was wearing a frost bib.

    i'm not going to lie to you, though, i have spent some chilly nights fiddling with my gear until i get it right.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by flask_ehrlenmeyer View Post
    i put a sock around it with a piece of diy insulation made from HVAC insulation under the wooki inside the sock.
    Like fiberglass insulation or the air-bubble kind?

    I've got a roll of foil-faced fiberglass insulation left over from redoing my own HVAC system this summer. Hmmmm...

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