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  1. #1
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    UQ Cold Weather Decision Help Please

    I currently have an SLD Trail Winder Asym good to 40 degrees. I love this thing. Took me one night to dial it in and it is perfect for me. I have primarily hung in spring and fall. Now due to being cooped up too much I plan on doing some winter camping this year. I will be in the market for an UQ in the 15-20 degree range. My question / concern is as follows: I can get a 20 degree SLD TWinder but I am concerned about the areas that do not have any insulation with the asym design. Could cold winds or cold in general come thru these areas not insulated and have a negative effect on UQ performance? I would certainly consider a full length down UQ if that was a problem. Also I am a side sleeper so I may not always be as diagonal as perhaps I would be on the back. Maybe I'm just over reacting and SLD thought this issue through in the process but any thoughts you folks have will be greatly appreciated. As a senior, while I can afford the expense of a new UQ, I sure as heck can't afford the expense of one that doesn't keep me warm and toasty. Any thoughts, help etc. will be greatly appreciated.
    ~ Rerun

    In 100 years it won't make any difference...

  2. #2
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    rerun, remember, you don’t have to buy new; often there are good bargains in the ForSale area.

    Also, winter camping is more than just a warmer UQ (and TQ). You will most often find more of more of these these additional items: underquilt protector (UQP), full sock (makes your hammock like a suspended single wall tent), tarp with doors (further retaining heat).

    In addition, no matter what your equipement configuration, you’ll have the challenge of condensation. The challenge is the allow enough air circulation without giving up too much heat retention. There are items like a “bib” hung in front of your face to catch the frost. There is using your bugnet with the idea that the warm vapor will pass through and condense on your tarp - and the net will keep it from falling back on the TQ. Packing out a trail in the snow to your “restroom” area so you don’t sink to your knees in the snow if you have to get up at night. Bringing a shovel to dig out an area for the hammock because when you get near a tree, the tree well will be much lower than the snow level. So your suspension may not be much above the surrounding snow level and you’ll have dig it out a bit for the hammock … stuff like that.

    It is fun. NO MOSQUITOES! But the challenge (that make it interesting) are more than just warmer gear.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Kallorne's Avatar
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    If winter camping in and around GA snow levels shouldn't be much of an issue. If the bulk of the trailwinders isn't of concern I would just go with the symmetrical version. I have a 40* symmetrical that I use car camping and enjoy it because I don't have to adjust anything at all when I switch from one diagonal to another. I sometimes switch a couple times a night. That said i wouldn't see the asym version as having any less coverage than a contemporary UQ design as the insulated portion is roughly the same width as a regular UQ. For the pack volume and instantly cozy warmth you really can't beat down though. I use a 20* Phoenix in the pack for 3 season all over the northwest.

  4. #4
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rerun View Post
    I currently have an SLD Trail Winder Asym good to 40 degrees. I love this thing. Took me one night to dial it in and it is perfect for me. I have primarily hung in spring and fall. Now due to being cooped up too much I plan on doing some winter camping this year. I will be in the market for an UQ in the 15-20 degree range. My question / concern is as follows: I can get a 20 degree SLD TWinder but I am concerned about the areas that do not have any insulation with the asym design. Could cold winds or cold in general come thru these areas not insulated and have a negative effect on UQ performance? I would certainly consider a full length down UQ if that was a problem. Also I am a side sleeper so I may not always be as diagonal as perhaps I would be on the back. Maybe I'm just over reacting and SLD thought this issue through in the process but any thoughts you folks have will be greatly appreciated. As a senior, while I can afford the expense of a new UQ, I sure as heck can't afford the expense of one that doesn't keep me warm and toasty. Any thoughts, help etc. will be greatly appreciated.
    IMO, the answer to your first question, about "cold coming thru", is "NO". The only area you need to be concerned about cold with your UQ is the part of your body that is in contact with the UQ and also compressing the loft of your TQ. Any part of your body which is covered with uncompressed loft from your TQ or sleeping bag is of no concern when it comes to needing an UQ. If you have an extra 3" or 12" of UQ sticking up above you is not going to do much for you unless of course you move round enough to end up laying on that area, thus needing some uncompressed loft from an UQ in that area. Usually, it serves no purpose. And it won't do much for wind, as a decent wind will blow right through a down UQ, and that area above you does not need insulating anyway, it is insulated by your TQ. You don't need to insulate hammock areas with an UQ UNLESS some part of your body is laying on that area.

    Now, it is possible, I suppose, that wind might be slowed down by an UQ that is way up above your shoulders and sides. Thus reducing the amount that makes it through your hammock's sides and manages to contact your TQ, potentially giving your TQ some wind chill to deal with. But, reducing that would be kind of minimal, I think, with a down UQ. I would much rather have a TQ and UQ(or pad) that is able to deal with whatever expected temp and even with a little wind chill, and just deal with the wind with a sheltered spot, a well placed tarp, and/or a piece of highly wind resistant nylon as an UQ protector.

    No reasonable amount of down can deal with wind. In my experience, strong wind gusts can easily make an unprotected 20F UQ a 50F UQ. I can feel those cold gusts go right through the UQ and hit my back. But easily solved with an UQP or well placed tarp. Or, if in the woods, more than once I have been freezing on a ridge due to wind, and dropped off that forested ridge down towards the valley on the Leeward side of the ridge, far enough that the wind mostly disappears. I can look up above me and see and hear it shaking the tree tops, but I am out of it! But if still in it, no amount of UQ is going to save me, but with a big enough tarp and/or an UQP, I'll be fine even if the UQ is not very wide. As long as it is wide enough to cover my back and shoulders, that is all that is needed.

    But on your question about being on your side and out of position, only you can answer that. Are you managing to get off of the SLD Trail Winder Asym, and end up with a cold spot above it's rated temp? If NO, then you will probably be fine with lower rated SLD Trail Winder Asym. If yes, then you will still be cold even with a warmer rated SLD Trail Winder Asym. And you might need a wider UQ. So, which is it?

  5. #5
    Senior Member cmoulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rerun View Post
    I currently have an SLD Trail Winder Asym good to 40 degrees. I love this thing. Took me one night to dial it in and it is perfect for me. I have primarily hung in spring and fall. Now due to being cooped up too much I plan on doing some winter camping this year. I will be in the market for an UQ in the 15-20 degree range. My question / concern is as follows: I can get a 20 degree SLD TWinder but I am concerned about the areas that do not have any insulation with the asym design. Could cold winds or cold in general come thru these areas not insulated and have a negative effect on UQ performance? I would certainly consider a full length down UQ if that was a problem. Also I am a side sleeper so I may not always be as diagonal as perhaps I would be on the back. Maybe I'm just over reacting and SLD thought this issue through in the process but any thoughts you folks have will be greatly appreciated. As a senior, while I can afford the expense of a new UQ, I sure as heck can't afford the expense of one that doesn't keep me warm and toasty. Any thoughts, help etc. will be greatly appreciated.
    Some great advice thus far, however I would also ask if you're generally a cold sleeper and whether or not you're a backpacker, moto or bikepacker, which means that volume and weight are of some concern.

    If you're generally a cold sleeper you might want to get a UQ (whatever you get) that is rated 10 degrees or more below your anticipated low temperature. I have a 20deg Apex TQ and can attest that with its volume and weight it is not something I'd want to be hauling around on a regular basis, and that would certainly be true for a UQ as well. So for a low-temp UQ I'd really consider only down.

    When considering the tarp/UQP choice, my suggestion would be to use either a UQP or a larger tarp that has good side coverage and doors, but not both. Personally, for nasty/windy winter I'd opt for the larger tarp every time. However, in less severe winter conditions I have managed just fine with a simple hex tarp with no doors, using good site selection and good tarp orientation to the breeze, and no UQP. A nice clump of mountain laurel or rhododendron can make a heckuva good wind block. However, sometimes such choices can be slim-to-none so if I were going to get just one I'd opt for the larger tarp with doors.

    11 foot hex in winter


    HG Palace in winter
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ~ Gen. George S Patton

  6. #6
    FLTurtle's Avatar
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    If you're an 'active sleeper', maybe get the symmetrical version of the Trail Winder?

    Take a look at this thread: https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...t=Simply+Light

  7. #7
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    I had this condensation issue last fall and had no idea how to fix it! I was in a -15 bag with a yoga mat under me but woke up with the tarp above me dripping water onto my face. I chose not to use my netted hammock due to weight conservation, and no bugs in the fall. Do you have other suggestions other than netting? The netting does make a lot of sense though because the first time I hung, I didn't have a condensation issue, and it's only when I use a tarp (chill gorilla 12x12 hung on a ridgeline, usually without doors, at an angle to allow some breeze through.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Rolloff's Avatar
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    I've seen Shug use a piece of micro fleece suspended from his RL, to hang above his head (over his face) to catch breath condensation, in frigid temps.

    In the Spring and Fall dew point seems to be one of the big factors. You can go out one time and have no problems and the next time your dripping. Setting your tarp up high and wide and maybe using an UQ Protector to keep the wind off of you while allowing more circulation under the tarp is one way thing to try. The main problem is of course knowing when to anticipate condensation and that can be hard.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taraH View Post
    I had this condensation issue last fall and had no idea how to fix it! I was in a -15 bag with a yoga mat under me but woke up with the tarp above me dripping water onto my face. I chose not to use my netted hammock due to weight conservation, and no bugs in the fall. Do you have other suggestions other than netting? The netting does make a lot of sense though because the first time I hung, I didn't have a condensation issue, and it's only when I use a tarp (chill gorilla 12x12 hung on a ridgeline, usually without doors, at an angle to allow some breeze through.
    Was the tarp close to your face, or pretty high above you? There is no way around it, warm, moist breath is going to condense like crazy on a cold layer of nylon. It will even condense on breathable fabric like fleece, or netting. The closer the tarp, the trickier things get. It doesn't even have to be all that cold, just cold enough so that the tarp drops below the dew point.

    Look into something called a "frost bib". https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...1042-Frost-bib

  10. #10
    Senior Member Baka Dasai's Avatar
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    I have a 20 deg asymmetrical Trail Winder. I occasionally side-sleep, and when I do I manage to fit within the insulated parts, but only just. I'm 6' tall, and slim.

    I don't think there's any issue with having uninsulated parts of the UQ as long as your body isn't resting against them. If you "fit" within the 40 deg asym, you'll fit within the 20 deg asym.

    If I was to do it again I'd do it the same - asym.

    I don't know how cold it gets where you are, but you might consider getting the 10 deg version, at a cost of an additional 2.5 oz.

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