Wide hammocks aren't only for larger people; and a fabric question

**NW Boricua** · 05-27-2020, 12:20

My first hammock is an 11ft, 74-inch wide hammock made of 1.6 HyperD XL (from Hemlock Mountain Outdoors; a custom CoyotePack/RedTail hybrid). I find it incredibly comfortable, both for lounging and for sleeping. I then bought a regular-width Chameleon in Hexon 1.6 because my partner and I are both short and lightweight (5'/115# & 5'6"/145#), and most of what I had read implied regular width would be sufficient. However, I very rarely get a good night's sleep in the Chameleon. Even lounging in it is nowhere near as comfortable as in the wider HyperD hammock.

We live on 5 acres of woods, and I use our hammocks a lot, for lounging but specifically, for sleeping. My partner joins me sometimes, using our Beetle Buckle spreader bar setup under Dutch Winter Wide tarp. And when he does, I sleep on the Chameleon since I'm smaller, and no matter how many times I try, I can't get as comfortable. (He only spent 1 night on the Chameleon and was too uncomfortable to try again). Basically, the sweet spot for comfort is much harder to find for us in the 58in width of the Chameleon.

What I don't know is how much of the comfort difference is the width (which I suspect is a lot) and how much does the difference in the type of fabric adds to that.

Nonetheless, I've concluded I need to buy a wider hammock (DIY is out of the question) and probably sell the regular Chameleon, unless we keep it for backpacking. But the wide Chameleon is only 68in wide when made of Hexon 1.6. Dutchware Gear also offers the Chameleon Wide in NylonD W 1.7. BTW, I'm not considering lighter fabrics because I want the option of snuggling or sitting together in the same hammock.

I love the "perks" of the Chameleon (vision zipper, removable/exchangeable bugnet/top cover, multiple quilt hooks, multiple D-rings inside and out, etc). So, I'd prefer a wide Chameleon over other manufacturers, unless there's a way to reproduce all of those features.

Actual questions:
Is the NylonD W 1.7 similar to the 1.6 HyperD XL in feel and stretch?

Since the NylonD W 1.7 material is wider than the Hexon W 1.6, will the finished hammock be wider than 68in or still end up at 68in? (I have emailed Dutchware Gear and await an answer). Since I don't know what our optimal width is, but I know we're both comfortable in the 74in hammock, I'm figuring the wider the better.

I basically want the comfort of the other hammock (74 inches and 1.6 HyperD W) with all the "perks" of a Chameleon, and trying to figure out how close I can get to that. Any suggestions/information would be greatly appreciated.

**cougarmeat** · 05-27-2020, 13:15

BIAS (Butt in a Sling) has a Camper XL that comes close to 74 inches (it’s spec’d at 72).

http://www.buttinasling.com/biascamperxl.html

It’s pretty “bare bones” as far as features, but it’s a start.

If you are interested, I could figure a price for mine that would include a full coverage zipper opening bug net. I think mine is double layer with knotty mod so it’s not the lightest. But you’ll be hard pressed to add “lightness” with your other two criteria of being extra wide and extra strong.

Though many campers are comfortable with a narrower fabric, there are no rules as to what’s “right”. If you are comfortable with 74 inches wide - it’s not too much material for you - then that’s fine. Admittedly, there’s a tendency to want to know “what’s wrong” when a 5” person is not comfortable in a standard camping GE hammock. But the body likes what the body likes. If a wide hammock is your cup of tea, don't let anyone shame you into drinking coffee.

**NW Boricua** · 05-27-2020, 13:48

"Admittedly, there’s a tendency to want to know “what’s wrong” when a 5” person is not comfortable in a standard camping GE hammock."

A few points of clarification: I am most comfortable (in a hammock or a bed), side sleeping in a fetal position, so the wide hammock allows that for me in a way that the narrower one doesn't. I can do it in the narrower one, but not in the "sleeping on a cloud of extreme comfort" way that the wider one allows. Sometimes I'll wake up realizing I'm been sleeping in a diagonal lay on the narrower hammock, and I'm not anywhere near as comfortable in that position. But somehow the narrower hammock forces me into that. My partner has some knee and shoulder issues, and can't seem to stay in one position too long, so he prefers the wider hammock because there is a wider range of positions available to him in it. So, could either of us backpack with a 58" hammock, and still be more comfortable than on the ground, yes. But for our more permanent year-round set-up on our property, and as a comfortable, viable alternative to our bed, the wider hammock wins, hands down. I hope that helps clarify.

**tollermama** · 05-27-2020, 18:51

Originally Posted by NW Boricua

"Admittedly, there’s a tendency to want to know “what’s wrong” when a 5” person is not comfortable in a standard camping GE hammock."

A few points of clarification: I am most comfortable (in a hammock or a bed), side sleeping in a fetal position, so the wide hammock allows that for me in a way that the narrower one doesn't. I can do it in the narrower one, but not in the "sleeping on a cloud of extreme comfort" way that the wider one allows. Sometimes I'll wake up realizing I'm been sleeping in a diagonal lay on the narrower hammock, and I'm not anywhere near as comfortable in that position. But somehow the narrower hammock forces me into that. My partner has some knee and shoulder issues, and can't seem to stay in one position too long, so he prefers the wider hammock because there is a wider range of positions available to him in it. So, could either of us backpack with a 58" hammock, and still be more comfortable than on the ground, yes. But for our more permanent year-round set-up on our property, and as a comfortable, viable alternative to our bed, the wider hammock wins, hands down. I hope that helps clarify.

You could always call Dutch, tell him exactly what you are hoping for and the width and he could probably make you one. It might cost more for custom work but it might be exactly what you are looking for.

**durunner** · 05-27-2020, 23:45

I kind of understand your pain. I bought a Raven in 1.6 Hyper D as wide as possible. I love the comfort of that. I don't like the bugnet though. I then bought a regular Chameleon in the Hexon 1.0. I felt it wasn't wide enough and I was unsure about the lightweight material. I bought the wide Chameleon in a Hexon 1.6. That was an improvement. I love the Chameleon features too. However, I can't get as comfortable in the Hexon 1.6 when compared with the 1.6 Hyper D. I wish I could combine the two. The features and bugnet of the Chameleon with the fabric and the width of the Raven. I don't hate the Hexon, but I definitely don't love it either.

**NW Boricua** · 05-28-2020, 18:54

Originally Posted by durunner

I kind of understand your pain. I bought a Raven in 1.6 Hyper D as wide as possible. I love the comfort of that. I don't like the bugnet though. I then bought a regular Chameleon in the Hexon 1.0. I felt it wasn't wide enough and I was unsure about the lightweight material. I bought the wide Chameleon in a Hexon 1.6. That was an improvement. I love the Chameleon features too. However, I can't get as comfortable in the Hexon 1.6 when compared with the 1.6 Hyper D. I wish I could combine the two. The features and bugnet of the Chameleon with the fabric and the width of the Raven. I don't hate the Hexon, but I definitely don't love it either.

Dutchware Gear (Carolyn) says the NylonD W 1.7 will still result in a maximum of 68in wide Chameleon. After emailing back and forth with Jared at Simply Light Designs, I am seriously considering getting an 11ft Trail Lair in 1.6 HyperD XL so I can get the 74 inches. He can put D-rings and quilt hooks wherever I specify. And I can get it with the Wind Shield (ie top cover). The bugnet isn't removable, though it is retractable. But when the bugnet is on, the Wind Shield can zip onto it, which, combined with an UQP, is still far more elegant than a bulky winter sock. A custom Trail Lair like that might be the closest I can get to what I want. And once Jared receives the custom fabric (which he says is taking 8-10 days currently), he'll have it out the door in about 24 hours.

https://simplylightdesigns.com/colle...cts/trail-lair

This YouTube review of the Trail Lair also shows a prototype of the Wind Shield. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYCgCvQTISw

durunner... What did you not like about the Raven's bugnet that was different with the Chameleon?

**cougarmeat** · 05-28-2020, 21:30

NW Boricua, I occasionally use a Hammeck Envy-S which is like a Trail Lair and that design is far more elegant that a bulky Winter sock. Not as warm, but it’s not winter. You still need a tarp, but that Wind Shield and netting (not removable so always available - a feature, not a bug) allow for a variety of conditions and extend the comfort zone of lighter gear.

I hope you find what you are looking for so you can wake up feeling like you are on a warm cozy cloud.

**Smckinney0031** · 05-31-2020, 09:27

Originally Posted by tollermama

You could always call Dutch, tell him exactly what you are hoping for and the width and he could probably make you one. It might cost more for custom work but it might be exactly what you are looking for.

Exactly my thought

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

**NW Boricua** · 05-31-2020, 10:56

As far as I know, Dutchware Gear is currently sewing PPE, many hammock fabrics are out of stock, those that are in stock have a 3-4 week lead time. I have placed my order with Jared from Simply Light Designs, the king of customization and rapid turnaround, in my opinion. It will take longer than usual, because he has to order the 1.6 HyperD XL, but it will still be super fast and get me pretty close to what I want.

**MattB** · 06-09-2020, 11:44

Originally Posted by durunner

I kind of understand your pain. I bought a Raven in 1.6 Hyper D as wide as possible. I love the comfort of that. I don't like the bugnet though. I then bought a regular Chameleon in the Hexon 1.0. I felt it wasn't wide enough and I was unsure about the lightweight material. I bought the wide Chameleon in a Hexon 1.6. That was an improvement. I love the Chameleon features too. However, I can't get as comfortable in the Hexon 1.6 when compared with the 1.6 Hyper D. I wish I could combine the two. The features and bugnet of the Chameleon with the fabric and the width of the Raven. I don't hate the Hexon, but I definitely don't love it either.

I sewed a Chameleon clone in wide 1.6 HyperD with Dutch's zippers. I enjoy my wide Hexon 1.6 but I agree, I like the feel of HyperD better.