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  1. #1
    Senior Member 509-T203-KG's Avatar
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    FIRST NIGHT - Nemo Tensor Insulated

    Excited to finally try the Nemo Tensor. It was in my top 2 when I decided to buy a Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm MAX. Both fit my needs for a rectangular 25” wide insulated pad with horizontal baffles.

    The XTherm was more expensive, but better warmth to weight ratio and overall insulation (5.7 R-Value). The Nemo was soft, comfy, and quieter, but not as insulated (3.5 R-Value) and probably less durable.

    I have many nights on the XTherm and love it. In my opinion from research and experience, it is the best pad money can buy. But my son needed a pad and the Tensor was on sale so I picked one up.

    I’m curious to see the difference in insulation performance. 3.5 should be plenty for tonight’s projected low of 36°.







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  2. #2
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Can't wait for your results!

  3. #3
    Senior Member 509-T203-KG's Avatar
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    FIRST NIGHT - Nemo Tensor Insulated

    Well, it only got down to 43°F, but there was also a steady 5-10 mph wind all night.

    I used my 40°F (comfort) Sierra Designs Mobile Mummy with a Costco down throw (CDT) laid over top. I wore mid-weight base layers & socks and a lightweight fleece 1/4 zip top. No hat.

    I added the 1/4 zip fleece and CDT because I thought it was going to get colder. Plus the forecasted wind...

    I was uncomfortably warm for the first couple hours, so I finally took the CDT off and stuffed it in my backpack. I should’ve taken the fleece off also, but I was too lazy. Still a bit too warm.

    The pad was very comfortable, and did its job plenty well with regards to insulation. My experience with the XTherm is that is performs better when fully inflated, but I’m starting to experiment with deflating it just a bit, and haven’t seemed to loose much insulation, if any.

    With the Nemo, at first I fully inflated it. It was comfortable, and I liked the feel of the quilted baffles. But when fully inflated, I could feel the baffles a bit too much. Later on I let some air out and it was more comfortable and I still stayed warm.

    Again, as with many other tests of the XTherm, the wind was simply not a factor, even though I had my tarp set high. I did not feel if from below, or above, other than occasionally on my face. It was quite windy at times, with 15-20mph gusts. At one point I considered going inside because it was so loud, but it eventually calmed down. REI tarp held up great per usual.

    Overall, a great night of sleep! I didn’t want to get up in the morning. Further testing is needed to figure out the temperature limit, but the pad was very comfortable. It will likely steal some reps from the XTherm.




  4. #4
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    Did you have the mobile mummy under your back as well?
    My experience with the tensor wasn't as great. In similar temperatures I found my back somewhat cool

  5. #5
    Senior Member 509-T203-KG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentmatt View Post
    Did you have the mobile mummy under your back as well?
    My experience with the tensor wasn't as great. In similar temperatures I found my back somewhat cool
    The mobile mummy is essentially a mummy bag, so yes, there was sleeping bag between me and the pad, unlike an open-backed top quilt. Is that what you were using?


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 509-T203-KG View Post
    The mobile mummy is essentially a mummy bag, so yes, there was sleeping bag between me and the pad, unlike an open-backed top quilt. Is that what you were using?
    Yes, so just my back directly against the pad. Was really hoping not to need an underquilt outside of cold seasons, but that wasn't the case with the tensor

  7. #7
    Senior Member 509-T203-KG's Avatar
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    Night number two on the Nemo Tensor insulated pad could be interesting. 27°F projected low, and it’s already 10° colder than night one. It’s snowing quite hard at the moment and I set the tarp very high. Might get some snow drifting in on me, and it could be difficult to reach the tarp to knock snow off. Oh well, I’m tired and comfy... time to hit the sack!







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  8. #8
    Senior Member 509-T203-KG's Avatar
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    FIRST NIGHT - Nemo Tensor Insulated

    It only snowed for about an hour, and there was little to no wind, so only trace amounts of snow made it to the corners of my bridge hammock. Not enough to affect anything. Got down to a low of 25°F, right around dawn.

    Clothing: light base layers, mid-weight merino wool socks, fleece pajama pants, light fleece ¼ zip pullover.

    Under insulation: Nemo Tensor Insulated air pad (R-Value 3.5).

    Top insulation: Sierra Designs Mobile Mummy 800 (39° comfort, 29° limit) with Costco down throw blanket and puffy jacket laid over top.

    Generally, I stayed warm enough to sleep comfortably through the night. I wouldn’t have minded if the under-side of me had been a tad bit warmer, but it was enough. I still slept plenty. I feel like I could still take the pad another 10° colder or more. Once again, the pad was quite comfortable as far as “feel” goes.







    Last edited by 509-T203-KG; 04-04-2020 at 02:12.

  9. #9
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    509, your experiments have added greatly to the subject of pad use in bridge hammocks. And your results have always been very encouraging,with 2 different brands and R value ratings of pads.

    Many- maybe also yourself- would have never got by on that first night (with the Tensor) with a 40F rated UQ. The wind would have ruled comfort out for most, I suspect. Heck, some folks don't do well at 40F in a 40F rated UQ even when wind is well blocked. I usually do fine at rated temps or a bit below with my UQs, but people vary, and a fair # of folks seem to have difficulty being warm at rated temps with many UQs. I'm only basing that on the large # of treads seeking help I have sen here over the years. But either way, add any unblocked wind in there and it is pretty much game over. So it is very useful to see how wind has simply not been a factor for you, now even with a pad that is only rated at 3.5R. What is the weight of that pad? I assume it weighs more than the X-therm.

    So now, with a 3.5R pad, you have been fine at 43F plus significant wind chill, and 25F with little or no wind. Pretty good!

    Now if I could just figure out why some- like Kentmatt and others, have much worse results. I don't have a ton of experience to go by, but I do have some success with pads. Toasty a bit below 20 with one torso TR self inflating pad rated at 2.6R stacked on top of one full length CCF Ridgerest 2.6R. Other than that, I did OK with a Neoair All Season(4.9R) in the 20s and 30s, used in a 90º Hammock that has a deep pad pocket, so I was not solidly on the pad as well as I should have been. So, I think I have done OK also in my limited tests, but some others not so much. I wonder what is the difference? It can't be blamed on gaps or adjustment like with an UQ.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 04-04-2020 at 12:51.

  10. #10
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    Not to be the party pooper but if it's gunna be that kinda party I'll crap in the mashed potatoes.

    I don't wish to outright dismiss someone's opinion or experience but essentially that's what I'm about to do so might as well just get to it. It's nothing personal to 509.

    Simply speaking what we have here is an outlier.
    It wouldn't be right to say a piece of sleeping gear sucks because one person had trouble 20* above a suggested rating.
    It's quite reasonable to reverse that and say that one person pushing a piece of gear 20* below it's rating doesn't mean much either.

    Again... not personal but all sleep gear is personal. We can assume male, we don't know age, fitness level, outdoor experience, cold weather experience, or acclimation levels of the person.

    Come January-
    A person from Florida in Chicago will have on full clothes and a down jacket at 50*.
    A person from Chicago in Florida will have on shorts, tee-shirt and flip flops at 50*.
    People acclimate to the temp they live in, and much more than 20* off and you are off.

    When I still swung a hammer outside everyday and slept outside six days a week- I could also post some pretty impressive and off the charts levels of warmth. When I was speed hiking and my metabolism was rocking I could reach criminally inappropriate levels of warmth with 2 ounces of apex.

    Now that I swing a mouse and spent the last year or two in the basement I find myself chilled here and there in the basement with a 40* setup in 55-60* temps. I'm also over the hill now at 41, much less fit, and enjoy a bit of booze a bit too often.

    If I pop out into the back yard or for a short trip I'll be needing to insulate myself a good 10-20* more than I used to.
    If I were blessed enough to take a 14 day trip... likely I'd find myself back to average. I occasionally get to spend a few weeks in the yard and find that acclimation returns to me within reason and can say that with reasonable certainty.

    The ability to 'rest', even if not sleeping deeply in cooler temps is a skill that does not seem to fade once learned. An experienced sleeper doesn't need to be as warm as a rookie and is less apt to wake up from a chill. In some older army studies it was found that experienced sleepers run the metabolism a little hotter than your average climate controlled indoor sleepers as well... further widening the divide.

    Point being-
    If this is personal it is directed at you Mr. Bob Pads and bridges are indeed a nice combo- within reason- and with the caveat that you can always drop your pad to the ground to get through an unexpectedly cold night.

    But simple physics dictates that they do not perform as well in the air as they do on the ground. They simply are not designed for it.
    There is always an exception to any rule, and in this case it is the downmat. But that is not really relevant for most as it's too heavy/bulky to carry.
    Foam functions differently and we are talking air pads regardless- not DuctTape's pulk full of foam.

    Despite our all-star super sleeper 509's success at XX temp with xyz mat- I think that if he were to find his absolute lower limit with the XthermÂ… it would probably still be much lower on the ground than in the air.

    At the end of the day when we discuss temp we are at best talking user feedback.
    In a large sense there is much more art than science in the sleeping gear.
    And as mentioned before the most critical component of any formula one might use is the W portion of 1 clo = 0.155 K·m²·W⁻¹ ≈ 0.88 R.

    While that looks impersonal it is not. It is a very personal formula.
    That is .155Kelvin x square meters of surface area of your body x Watts (the amount of heat you personally put out).

    It is the reason that men sleep warmer than women or children (they have more surface area)
    It is the reason that some folks are cold sleepers and some are warm (they put out different watts).
    It is the reason that as you age, you sleep colder (your metabolism slows and you put out less watts).

    Not in the formula, but in the very next one is something called 'mets' which is a measure of your metabolic rate based upon your activity level.
    Basically that is the dimmer switch on your lightbulb. Go to bed and you drop to about 40w walk fast and you get to 80w. This is why you may recall reading about some SUL jerk backpackers who do crunches in their sleeping bag at midnight or jumping jacks before they go to bed- they are cranking up their wattage to warm up the sleep system before their metabolic rate drops off.

    Anywho..

    Know thyself. And don't judge thyself against others too harshly. There will always be those who do amazing in a piece of gear and those who do horribly. Neither outlier should have much general impact on your opinion of a piece of gear and neither person is you. Experience will eventually sort out where you fall on the spectrum. And a little honesty with yourself on your current levels of acclimation and fitness should also inform your choices as time goes on.

    Also... lots of folks here speak of not being UL people. One of the easiest (and lightest) overpacking choices is simply carrying too much insulation. Even SUL jerks like me often will overpack insulation as cheap insurance. A top quilt rated 20* beyond what I need is still a full pound lighter than 'sleeping with a jacket' I wasn't going to wear anyway.

    If there is a spot I rarely have much trouble suggesting one pack heavy- it is insulation. If you are currently learning your personal limits I do commend those who test gear out like 509 is doing and finding the edges of where they can go. But the big trick IMO with all gear is finding the edge so you can take one healthy step back and admire the view without concern of falling off.

    And to answer 509s question... in general it has been found with the Xtherm that backing off as far as 3/4 full inflation doesn't have much impact on the temp rating. In large part it is due to the foil used to supplement the air chambers. That said... the key to remember in a hammock is that it is easier to 'bottom out' in one spot when deflating. Especially in a bridge like that REI bridge where you will be laying 'butt heavy'. I like to take it to full and then back off just a few squirts of air to round off the 'edge' of a fully inflated air mat. I then reach under and give a few pokes to make sure I've got a good 1" or more between my lowest spot and the hammock.
    I generally side sleep so that tends to be my hip and shoulders, but since I also tend to roll around it's subjective.

    A rough guide- I can usually easily fold the pad in half, but not in thirds. That helps me avoid over inflating or having to do the dreaded hop back out if a bit too much air slips out of the valve.

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