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  1. #21
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicornv007 View Post
    .................................................. ..
    * Bonus Items: I put an old self-inflating pad (about 1/2 filled) in between the 2 layers of the hammock and a 16 inch wide sheet of reflectix.

    I thought the pad was worthless. I never could tell when I was on it. ................................

    Anything I'm missing here? Thanks!
    OK, maybe I see a reason for my confusion about why there was zero benefit from adding this pad( i.e. other than possible reasons I mentioned in previous post, assuming it is not one of those reasons). (Unicornv007, this thread was 3/4 of a year ago, are you still at it? Did you solve your problems?)

    First, I assume the pad is insulated, since it is self inflating, but maybe not? Or maybe not much? Is it a summer pad, winter or in between? If not insulated, then it would indeed probably be worthless.

    2nd, it is an "old pad". Was it functioning fully, holding it's inflation all night? If not, it might be worthless.

    3rd: "about 1/2 filled". If not a true winter pad, inflating it only 1/2 way might not allow enough thickness/insulation to be noticeable. If on top of that it did not hold it's inflation, if there is even a slow leak, it might not help much at all.

  2. #22
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    I’d not use pads or air mattress
    I stack a zero* underquilt and a 20* underquilt
    I attach 20* underquilt to hammock first.
    I attach zero* underquilt to hammock last.
    I make sure to hang both underquilts so that they are lifting empty hammock about a foot.

    One way to do this, is to hang underquilt in front of hammock. I should be able to see hammock is a foot to six inches lower than underquilt all along their lengths.

    More skilled hammock campers, that camp in below zero weather, nest quilts and manage not to flatten the inner quilt. I do not have that degree of skill and am not in below zero weather. I smash the 20* quilt and have full loft in zero quilt. The zero* quilt does most of the work and the smushed 20* helps to stop all drafts and air gaps.

    I don’t have an underquilt protector, but have read that they help a lot.

  3. #23
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    The double UQ is a great idea.

  4. #24
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    Considerable warmth is radiated from your head which typically is not insulated by your top quilt. I find a down hat or hood (which other replies have alluded to) is very effective at keeping you warm & comfy in the 20's & teens.

  5. #25
    Senior Member MikekiM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Grappler View Post
    I’d not use pads or air mattress
    I stack a zero* underquilt and a 20* underquilt
    I attach 20* underquilt to hammock first.
    I attach zero* underquilt to hammock last.
    I make sure to hang both underquilts so that they are lifting empty hammock about a foot.

    One way to do this, is to hang underquilt in front of hammock. I should be able to see hammock is a foot to six inches lower than underquilt all along their lengths.

    More skilled hammock campers, that camp in below zero weather, nest quilts and manage not to flatten the inner quilt. I do not have that degree of skill and am not in below zero weather. I smash the 20* quilt and have full loft in zero quilt. The zero* quilt does most of the work and the smushed 20* helps to stop all drafts and air gaps.

    I don’t have an underquilt protector, but have read that they help a lot.
    If you're going to through the exercise of hanging the 20 first, why knowingly crush it? It would seem easy enough to add a length of cordage to the UQ suspension, with an adjustment.. maybe a prussik or ucr, that will allow the quilts hang together without delofting either. I recall Sqidmark used a mini ucr at one end to control the hang of the UQ. I have a cord lock hook at the foot end UQ suspension and hook it to a small auxiliary loop of micro cord tied to the CL. That allows for adjustment of UQs to various length hammocks. Let that 20 do its' job!!
    Yes, my pack weighs 70lbs, but it's all light weight gear....
    Bob's brother-in-law

  6. #26
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    If the reflectix was above the pad I could see how it would be more difficult to know you are on the pad (especially if the pad wasn't fully inflated).

    I use a pad a lot now. I use a lightweight one most of the time and then switch to a down filled one when the temps plummet. I've been down to freezing with a pad and have been toasty warm.

    1) Don't wall yourself off from your sleeping environment. Think about your hands. When they get cold, you put them under your arms or inside your jacket to be next to your body so as to share the heat. That's why I switched to removing or unzipping garments so I'm more exposed to my sleeping environment and trust to my quilts, etc. to keep the warmth in. If you bundled yourself with a jacket but didn't have anything around your legs, the heat generated by your torso wouldn't be much help to your legs, hands, feet.

    2) You can't get warm in a hammock if you are already cold. If you are already chilled when you crawl into your hammock, it will take you a really long time to get warm and you may never get warm. I now won't go camping in the cold without the means to make a hot water bottle. It adds additional heat for hours, especially when placed near your femoral or brachial arteries. I agree with whomever said you should do some exercise before going to bead and eat something. You don't want to be sweating but stoking your internal furnace allows it to generate heat which will be trapped by your insulation.

    Sometimes when it's really cold I'll get up after 4-6 hours when the hot water bottle has cooled to reheat it (I leave everything setup so I don't have to fuss with it). I also take a few bites of some nuts or a power bar. And learn my my (twice repeated mistake), close your hot water bottle and wait a minute or two and then tighten it down again. The heat can cause the plastic to expand and make it leak. Once I figured that out, I haven't had a leak since.

  7. #27
    Senior Member MikekiM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrope View Post
    1) Don't wall yourself off from your sleeping environment. Think about your hands. When they get cold, you put them under your arms or inside your jacket to be next to your body so as to share the heat. That's why I switched to removing or unzipping garments so I'm more exposed to my sleeping environment and trust to my quilts, etc. to keep the warmth in. If you bundled yourself with a jacket but didn't have anything around your legs, the heat generated by your torso wouldn't be much help to your legs, hands, feet.

    2) You can't get warm in a hammock if you are already cold. If you are already chilled when you crawl into your hammock, it will take you a really long time to get warm and you may never get warm. I now won't go camping in the cold without the means to make a hot water bottle. It adds additional heat for hours, especially when placed near your femoral or brachial arteries. I agree with whomever said you should do some exercise before going to bead and eat something. You don't want to be sweating but stoking your internal furnace allows it to generate heat which will be trapped by your insulation.

    Sometimes when it's really cold I'll get up after 4-6 hours when the hot water bottle has cooled to reheat it (I leave everything setup so I don't have to fuss with it). I also take a few bites of some nuts or a power bar. And learn my my (twice repeated mistake), close your hot water bottle and wait a minute or two and then tighten it down again. The heat can cause the plastic to expand and make it leak. Once I figured that out, I haven't had a leak since.
    All good advice here.

    What kind of water bottle are you using? I switched to two wide mouth Nalgene bottles for winter. One 32 oz and one 16 oz. Both have two piece reflectix cozys. I truly HATE how heavy they are, but function wins over form. They can take hot water without permanent damage. No more frozen water in the morning and even in the cozy, they generate some warmth overnight.

    Always a good idea to crack the water bottle open after filling it with hot water, retighten it after a few minutes and be sure to fill it to overflowing... if you leave an air pocket at the top when the water is hot, I've found it will deform the sides of the Nalgene bottle in as it cools and the cap can lock on to the point that you can't undo it. Never had one leak, but I still put the bottle in a ziploc when it comes in the hammock.
    Yes, my pack weighs 70lbs, but it's all light weight gear....
    Bob's brother-in-law

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikekiM View Post
    All good advice here.

    What kind of water bottle are you using? I switched to two wide mouth Nalgene bottles for winter. One 32 oz and one 16 oz. Both have two piece reflectix cozys. I truly HATE how heavy they are, but function wins over form. They can take hot water without permanent damage. No more frozen water in the morning and even in the cozy, they generate some warmth overnight.

    Always a good idea to crack the water bottle open after filling it with hot water, retighten it after a few minutes and be sure to fill it to overflowing... if you leave an air pocket at the top when the water is hot, I've found it will deform the sides of the Nalgene bottle in as it cools and the cap can lock on to the point that you can't undo it. Never had one leak, but I still put the bottle in a ziploc when it comes in the hammock.
    I was mostly using the regular Nalgene bottles which are the hard side and not the soft Polyethylene one you use (which I have for when the temps go below freezing). I'm not worrying about the bottle freezing.

    If I'm hiking and I *am* worrying about my water bottle freezing, I use the Hunersdorf/Relags bottle like this one. They are pretty equivalent to the ones you use but they have the advantage of a wide lid that's easier to grip (especially with gloves on).

    I have had bottles with some small amount of air be difficult to open once they have been securely closed to prevent leaks and the water has cooled. I think filling it to the brim may help and I'm curious to try that next time I'm out. That would be a no-no if the bottle could freeze but obviously that isn't an issue in this case.

  9. #29
    New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    OK, maybe I see a reason for my confusion about why there was zero benefit from adding this pad( i.e. other than possible reasons I mentioned in previous post, assuming it is not one of those reasons). (Unicornv007, this thread was 3/4 of a year ago, are you still at it? Did you solve your problems?)

    First, I assume the pad is insulated, since it is self inflating, but maybe not? Or maybe not much? Is it a summer pad, winter or in between? If not insulated, then it would indeed probably be worthless.

    2nd, it is an "old pad". Was it functioning fully, holding it's inflation all night? If not, it might be worthless.

    3rd: "about 1/2 filled". If not a true winter pad, inflating it only 1/2 way might not allow enough thickness/insulation to be noticeable. If on top of that it did not hold it's inflation, if there is even a slow leak, it might not help much at all.
    Wow. Going back and looking at this thread, I see I should have responded. Yes, I'm still at it. Yes, I'm still making mistakes but also yes, I'm fixing things.

    A few years ago (2021 Jan) I successfully took my rig down overnight to -10F temp (not counting windchill). I was toasty warm and my only problem was getting out of the rig in the morning as the air temperature just flat out hurt. That rig used the Dreamhammock 2-Layer Sparrow (with no net) but with a Warbonnet Winter Sock. Inside, I had a 20F EE Enigma, a Sea to Summit Thermal Reactor Liner that I had to wiggle into and a older sleeping bag (rated to 20F if it matters) that I had opened up and just thrown ontop of me in case I got cold. Underneath, I staked a 20F Incubator and a 40F Incubator. I also had a Nalgene bottle with hot water, ziplock bag and wool sock. I think I ended up wearing just a pair of 200 wt merino wool tights, wool socks, a long sleeve shirt (and maybe a fleece sweatshirt - sorry, can't remember for sure on that one) and a wool stocking cap. The following year (2022 Jan), another success own around 15F weekend. Still did the two UQ's stacked and winter sock, but only used the 20F EE Enigma and thermal Reactor inside. Clothing was about the same but didn't even need the stocking cap.

    THe reason I was checking back is I had a horrible experience over the weekend at 45F and just about froze. I had to go back to underquilt 101 to figure out what I did wrong. I setup at one spot and had to move quite suddenly on day 2 (in the rain). I tried to move on the fly with everything setup... just carry it to another section of woods and reclip. Considering things carefully and reading stuff now, I know I had a saggy hang at that point with a very loose ridgeline. The UQ ended up not being snug up against my butt and I had a fist-sized gap between my bottom and the UQ while sitting in it. Didn't figure that out until very early morning. Now I'm trying to figure out how to fix things and uncovering all kinds of opportunities from videos (especially Shug! Thanks!) about making sure I have a correct hang in the first place, then having the UQ pulled tight enough with the secondary suspensions, offsetting them on the ends and then not overtightening the baffle closures. Basic stuff that I had just forgotten over the last year or two as things had been going so well. Either way, great reminders as I have weekend trips planned for Nov and Jan again this year.

    As soon as my rig is fully dried out *and* its not raining anymore, I might go into the backyard to try and play around to see if I can get things setup.

  10. #30
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Hey Unicorn, that is good news! A stacked 20F + 40F UQ ought to be good to about minus 10(without looking it up) assuming both meet their temp ratings and all is adjusted well. So, you were toasty at 10F? Bingo! Stacking/layering(whether with quilts or HH Super Shelters or Peapods or clothing) has always worked as advertised for me, and sounds like you have it dialed in for you!

    I am still baffled why adding that layer known as a pad was worthless for you back then, I guess we will never know. But, good going on keeping warm at 10F below!

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