Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Watkinsville, GA
    Hammock
    Hammeck Netty, Astd. Dutch
    Tarp
    HG DCF Hex, TF
    Insulation
    HG,WLSS,JrB,UGQ,LL
    Suspension
    LW straps/Becket
    Posts
    513

    My (long) take on the classic UQP vs Get-a-bigger-tarp argument..from Standing Indian experience

    I know this topic gets brought up around here and almost beaten to death, but I just returned from a weekend trip doing the Standing Indian Loop and would like to report my position on the matter. On Friday night, lows got to around 30 (Didn't bring my thermometer because as my friend, Shwack would say, every molecule in your pack counts!....actually, I just forgot it) with a nice dusting of snow. Saturday night was windy but we were in a wonderful campsite just north of the Standing Indian shelter that provided us with a lot of protection from the gusts, but we still got plenty of wind.

    The forecast called for wind, but no rain both nights.

    The age-old argument is should you just get a proper winter tarp or use the UQP to supplement your less-than-palacial tarp.

    I have a HG standard DCF with no doors as well as a HG Palace.

    For the following reasons I decided to bring the Standard and the UQP instead of the Palace.

    1. Bulk: Although the combined weights are about the same, the combined bulk of the smaller tarp and the UQP is about half of the palace. It's also much easier to fit two small items into nooks or crannies in the pack than one big one.

    2. Porch mode/view-friendly and wind protection at the same time. If I didn't have the UQP, I would've had to pitch any tarp-standard or palace- low to the ground to protect me from losing heat due to all the wind. Since I was fairly certain of no rain, I pitched my tarp out wide to give me great views of the sky and terrain instead of just looking at the bottom of my tarp. If you've ever seen the video of the Jacks R-Better dude pitching the concept of how his down sleeves + down hood + down vest is greater and more versatile as a group of components than just a hooded down jacket, it's the same concept. The Palace could've protected me from the wind but at the cost of not being able to see out.

    3. Simplicity: This may not be the case with others, but to me, having a tarp without doors is much more simple than trying to manage the doors and worrying about whether they overlap properly, etc. The UQP is basically a "set it and forget it" deal and sometimes I even leave it attached to the UQ. As the great philosopher, Lynyrd Skynyrd advised, I try to be a simple man as much as possible.

  2. #2
    Senior Member cmoulder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Ossining, NY
    Hammock
    DH Darien, SLD Tree Runner
    Tarp
    HG hex
    Insulation
    Timmermade, Revolt
    Suspension
    Kevlar, Lapp Hitch
    Posts
    4,912
    Images
    356
    You've laid out very well the main arguments for both sides.

    Personally, I almost never spend very long lounging in the hammock, so the view is not that important to me. Once I'm awake I always get up, make a cup of coffee and watch the sunrise. And after a day of hiking and a good dinner, I get my gear and food squared away, get in the hammock and am usually asleep in a couple of minutes, so I don't place a high value on stargazing.

    As for packed size, I normally use an oversized stuff sack and roll my Palace somewhat loosely so that it smooshes out a bit to better utilize space inside the pack. Yes, I'm that rare fool that packs the tarp inside the pack, but I just cannot stand strapping it to the outside or wasting all the space in my pack's outside pockets, which is where I put stuff I'll need during the day. However, this is my time-tested method that has worked for me for a long time in good and bad weather.

    "...as my friend, Shwack would say, every molecule in your pack counts!" I like the way that guy thinks! But I must admit that I am not quite that anal-ytical.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ~ Gen. George S Patton

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Watkinsville, GA
    Hammock
    Hammeck Netty, Astd. Dutch
    Tarp
    HG DCF Hex, TF
    Insulation
    HG,WLSS,JrB,UGQ,LL
    Suspension
    LW straps/Becket
    Posts
    513
    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post

    Personally, I almost never spend very long lounging in the hammock, so the view is not that important to me. Once I'm awake I always get up, make a cup of coffee and watch the sunrise. And after a day of hiking and a good dinner, I get my gear and food squared away, get in the hammock and am usually asleep in a couple of minutes, so I don't place a high value on stargazing.
    I'm very envious of you and all the others I know who can get in a hammock and be out for the night very quickly. I've been hanging for several years now and always take a while to go to sleep and wake up often during the night so I get many more opportunities to stargaze. It's weird but I can't explain why I'm that way when I am out for the night almost instantly at home in the bed. The only reason I can offer is because I stay up later at home and am usually in bed right after dark on the trail.

    I certainly don't want to try to make anyone think my way is the only way, but just wanted to show why I chose to do what I did and offer the rationale behind it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member cmoulder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Ossining, NY
    Hammock
    DH Darien, SLD Tree Runner
    Tarp
    HG hex
    Insulation
    Timmermade, Revolt
    Suspension
    Kevlar, Lapp Hitch
    Posts
    4,912
    Images
    356
    Indeed, we're all different and have to figure out what works for us.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ~ Gen. George S Patton

  5. #5
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    IN
    Hammock
    DIY 10.5' HyperD 1.6
    Tarp
    Warbonnet, SLD
    Insulation
    Hammock Gear
    Suspension
    WB Straps+Buckles
    Posts
    13,158
    Images
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Clisbyclark View Post
    3. Simplicity: This may not be the case with others, but to me, having a tarp without doors is much more simple than trying to manage the doors and worrying about whether they overlap properly, etc. The UQP is basically a "set it and forget it" deal and sometimes I even leave it attached to the UQ. As the great philosopher, Lynyrd Skynyrd advised, I try to be a simple man as much as possible.
    This is why I used my Warbonnet Mamajamba almost exclusively from about 2012 to 2016. It always worked, but I think it was all luck.

    Then last year I finally gave up on it when I got a Thunderfly. Thoese tiny "doors" make ALL the difference. Snow, mist, rain (even with NO wind) always seems to drift in there. Since the doors clip together outside, there's really no "management" of the doors like with larger doors, shockcord, clips, etc.

    Then I got soaked last summer. Totally soaked by a wild storm ("30% chance of showers"). That's when I threw in the towel. I think I may be done with the doorless setups.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Otter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    FL
    Hammock
    DIY Hexon 1.0, Hexon 1.6
    Tarp
    WB Mountainfly
    Insulation
    HG UQ's, EE TQ
    Suspension
    Dutch Mantis
    Posts
    2,669
    It is truly cool that you've found what works for you. That's a good feeling to have gear dialed in.

    Funny that OneClick used the word "luck". Because it applies to my past as well. Was fine w/less tarp protection ... until I wasn't. That ONE time was enough for me to carry more coverage. Love my doors!!!

    Gonna have to test mine real soon

  7. #7
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Posts
    11,108
    Images
    489
    Clisby, I fully agree with your reasoning. Which is just because of my personal pref. Good arguments can be made either way.

    I MIGHT be the original fan here at HF for an UQP with smaller tarp approach. That is probably because, all more or less by accident, I started with a HH insulated with their so called Super Shelter(HHSS). You might be aware that their asym, diamond shaped tarp causes much concern because it does not look like it would protect from anything(wind/rain/snow) from the sides. And if it has any chance of doing so, it must be pitched in a manner so steep as to almost be touching the hammock on both sides. A system that worked better with the bottom entry of my original system. Otherwise, extremely difficult to avoid the condensation on the inside of the tarp when getting in and out.

    Now, that tarp is probably about the smallest of any tarp any one at HF ever uses. And even though it always made me nervous, I have found that when used with the HHSS, it has always been absolutely bomb proof. Hanging it in exposed spots during high winds and rains(tornado warnings) and it has always remained dry, worst case result maybe a table spoon of water in the low point of the under cover( similar to an UQP). As for wind protection, I have had the winds getting past the tarp, coming straight in the foot end, bouncing me around all night. But once I got to sleep despite all the noise from the wind and flapping tarp, I slept like a baby. Never felt any cold from the wind at all. I have no doubt that if i had been using an UQ that night, without an UQP, I would have frozen.

    So, IO, that set up provides at least equal- and maybe superior- protection against wind as a much larger tarp would do. And I don't have to worry about any change in wind direction, or condensation issues from having a tarp pitched in storm mode or with closed doors.

    The big downside to that set up: all of the above benefits only apply to sleep mode. Or possibly chair mode. If I am under the tarp for a long rain, but not laying down in the hammock, I sure do love the extra room under the large tarp. There have even been social considerations, where friends have joined me under the larger tarp for a visit. Especially friends who were sick of being trapped in their tents. On a few trips, I might have got the best of both worlds by using the HHSS, but replacing the original asym tarp with a some what wider hex or rectangular tarp. Not really a winter tarp, but much better coverage than that asym tarp. But, for sure, along with the protection that that the UC provides while sleeping, hard to beat. But still have lots of room for sitting around, or cooking, or receiving visitors, etc. And, I can get through most situations with a nice high, wide pitch, while still being protected from the wind while sleeping. Like here, in the Olympic Rain Forest of WA(that pad belongs to the friend who had been sitting under my tarp when it was raining, who took this picture) :

  8. #8
    Senior Member sidneyhornblower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    outside
    Posts
    1,500
    Quote Originally Posted by Clisbyclark View Post

    1. Bulk:
    2. Porch mode/view-friendly
    3. Simplicity:
    Never thought about the bulkiness argument but it makes sense. I do like my UQP, and will keep this post in mind next time I feel door envy, since I have not (yet) bought a tarp with doors.
    "...the height of hammock snobbery!"

  9. #9
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    VA, Oh, and FL
    Hammock
    HH Expedition, HH Explorer Dlx
    Tarp
    Noah 12, BCUSA 10
    Insulation
    JRB Nest, Old Rag
    Suspension
    Stock HH w/rings
    Posts
    7,979
    Images
    1
    Great post. You have my wheel turning to perhaps try a smaller tarp. Thanks for posting
    Deb
    TOS Terms of Service Link
    Guidelines to New For Sale Section Link
    How to obtain access & maintain your threads in For Sale Section Link
    Guidelines for Want to Buy (WTB) Section
    Hammock Acronyms


    "The older I get, the more I appreciate my rural childhood. I spent a lot of time outdoors, unsupervised, which is a blessing." Barbara Kingsolver

  10. #10
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    IN
    Hammock
    DIY 10.5' HyperD 1.6
    Tarp
    Warbonnet, SLD
    Insulation
    Hammock Gear
    Suspension
    WB Straps+Buckles
    Posts
    13,158
    Images
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by dkurfiss View Post
    You have my wheel turning to perhaps try a smaller tarp. Thanks for posting
    Or no tarp at all!

    In Very Cold Weather, Ditch the Tarp - Use A Flexi-Duct

    Sorry, it never gets old

  • + New Posts
  • Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Similar Threads

    1. Standing Indian
      By firefly88 in forum Hangouts, Campouts, and Trip Planning
      Replies: 7
      Last Post: 09-20-2016, 21:08
    2. Video: AT...Standing Indian
      By Firebird in forum Trip Reports
      Replies: 23
      Last Post: 10-21-2013, 06:44
    3. Standing Indian to NOC
      By nighthawk156 in forum Hangouts, Campouts, and Trip Planning
      Replies: 4
      Last Post: 06-14-2009, 22:15
    4. Standing Indian Trip Report/Equipment Report (Long)
      By Cruiser161 in forum Trip Reports
      Replies: 8
      Last Post: 05-20-2009, 20:07
    5. Standing Indian loop... long winded sorry
      By betwn2trees in forum Trip Reports
      Replies: 22
      Last Post: 03-03-2009, 21:17

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •