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  1. #21
    Senior Member cmoulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtbaghiker View Post
    "Security is mostly a superstition. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run then outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing" ---Helen Keller.
    And some things that look dangerous aren't so dangerous after all once you develop the audacity to confront them.

    OK OK, that's pretty audacious.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ~ Gen. George S Patton

  2. #22
    Senior Member JSH's Avatar
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    BillyBob58 I was caught in a bad windstorm and my tarp and gear wrapped over and over. Tarp itself wasn't torn but I lost some suspension stuff for the tarp. I messed up hanging in an exposed area rather than back in the trees. Fortunately it was only 1.5 miles back to the car and I was able to sleep with my top quilt that had gotten folded up in all of the hammock/tarp wrap. Underquilts were pretty wet by the time I was able to unfurl things enough to shove into my pack. It was a good lesson learned.

    After reading the comments in this excellent thread as well as those shared directly with me in my post on my incident in Backpacking, I've added an emergency blanket and bivy to my pack. Together they weigh about 6 ounces and pack within the bivy sack pouch. Not much weight. I could have used them in my last trip if the car had been too far to reach. I'll have them in the bottom of my pack from now on. Dirtbaghiker was wise to have his bivy with him. Really glad it worked out OK. You were in conditions that could have been a problem without the protection you brought to bear. Good thinking and planning.

  3. #23
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    I was one of the birthday singers on that trip. I just received a brand new UGQ 0F UQ but since I’m new to hanging I decided that this wasn’t the right place or conditions to test out this new hobby. So I planned on staying in the shelter and had a 5 f WM bag with a neo air winter mattress. But we knew the temps and snow forecast and I too brought my Bora Gear bivy. Not sure the style but not ultralight. More like 2lbs but I knew it was important. I was concerned a bit at first but then I realized that I was with a smart group and that I too was prepared. We talked afterwards about what would we do differently next time. It’s good I believe to communicate about the trips each time. Always room to learn. I too have bailed out close to the peak, goal is to get home safely. Next time I need to wrap up that giant cookie better, it was all busted up!

  4. #24
    Senior Member TrailSlug's Avatar
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    Hopefully you had tarp insurance as these Cuban Fiber tarps aren't cheap This will be a story for the campfires in the future. Thanks for sharing.

  5. #25
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailSlug View Post
    Hopefully you had tarp insurance as these Cuban Fiber tarps aren't cheap This will be a story for the campfires in the future. Thanks for sharing.
    I wondered this back at the OP: would a sil-nylon tarp have been any less likely to tear? Or no difference? I have read that sil-nylon is at least somewhat stronger than sil-poly.

    Snow caves have enabled me to convert the worst possible conditions into quiet, wind free temps of about freezing, no matter what the outside temp. But of course that requires lots of snow. And great clothing. But, whether doing spectacular falls and face plants in deep powder while skiing, or laying down in the snow while digging out a snow cave or trench, the clothes I used to wear for that always kept me dry. And warm enough. And that was always polyester long John layers and or polyester fleece/pile insulation. Covered by Gore-Tex outer layers, jackets, pants or bibs. A fleece neck gator and cap with Gore-Tex hood over those. This has never failed to keep me dry and warm enough while skiing or hiking in snow storms, or even 2 days of steady 35º rain in the Rockies hiking out. Same gear that kept me dry digging snow caves. But, I'm not going to be digging any snow caves in a windy 40º wind driven rain storm down south, or really in most palces that have snow. Most places it won't be deep enough to do that. Sure is handy when you can, though.


    Here is a couple of good related old threads, reporting on a HF hang that was a close call for a couple of folks, even as they tried to hike back to sleep in their cars. Very luckily one HF member was in better condition and able to prevent them from making wrong decisions due to hypothermia. It was also Jan, on Mt. Rogers, VA.
    This is a thread I started in 2018 reviewing the original 2013 report:
    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...23#post1933023

    This is also a discussion of what went wrong. The story begins at about page 6 of this general planning thread for the Mt. Rogers group hang for Jan 2013:
    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...-hangout/page6


    Here is a thread started by one of the folks who had a close call discussing all that went wrong(for him and a couple of others on that 2013 Mt. Rogers group hang) and maybe what to do different next time. Nothing like a personal learning experience to influence how you will do things in the future. As I often say: stuff happens! I have seen it happen to very experienced backpackers, when immediate bail out was not an option, as thankfully it was here:
    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...04-Hypothermia
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 01-24-2020 at 11:30.

  6. #26
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    I wondered this back at the OP: would a sil-nylon tarp have been any less likely to tear? Or no difference? I have read that sil-nylon is at least somewhat stronger than sil-poly.
    I would bet a decent amount on nylon or poly doing OK. Without being there I can't say for sure, but have a feeling. Those woven fabrics stretch some which really helps in with stress like wind. I'm not knocking DCF at all; it's strong but still a crazy-thin and light material. But one tiny thing could have pushed this tarp to the edge. The slightest angle towards on side vs the other? A microscopic notch in the end from rubbing on something from a previous trip, etc..

  7. #27
    Dirtbaghiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    I would bet a decent amount on nylon or poly doing OK. Without being there I can't say for sure, but have a feeling. Those woven fabrics stretch some which really helps in with stress like wind. I'm not knocking DCF at all; it's strong but still a crazy-thin and light material. But one tiny thing could have pushed this tarp to the edge. The slightest angle towards on side vs the other? A microscopic notch in the end from rubbing on something from a previous trip, etc..
    Another persons tarp, which was not dcf, also shredded up. Not sure what kind it was..
    Also, my DCF tarp was brand new. Just got this particular one 2 days earlier from Hammock Gear..

  8. #28
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtbaghiker View Post
    Another persons tarp, which was not dcf, also shredded up. Not sure what kind it was..
    Also, my DCF tarp was brand new. Just got this particular one 2 days earlier from Hammock Gear..
    2 days!! Oh man that's a heartbreaker!!!

  9. #29
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtbaghiker View Post
    Another persons tarp, which was not dcf, also shredded up. Not sure what kind it was..
    Also, my DCF tarp was brand new. Just got this particular one 2 days earlier from Hammock Gear..
    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    2 days!! Oh man that's a heartbreaker!!!
    WOW! TWO tarps, one DCF and the other not, shredded on this one trip? That is wild, crazy and scary. I'm going to keep this in the back of my mind for all future trips. We are, after all, really counting on these tarps to keep us safe. Frankly, I have always had some questions about the safety of my tarps compared to my little low slung 4 season TNF West Wind 2 person tent, as seen in this pic:




    A tent that I used in a few horrendous wind scenarios many years ago. I always figured no way could my hammock tarp match the wind protection of this tent because of two things: the surface area of the already small tent was divided into even smaller areas by the poles, which limited how far the nylon could move. I don't know for sure, but it just always seemed to me this would lead to a lowered likely hood of the wind tearing anything. Most especially if you managed to point the very small foot end into the wind, as recommended.

    The other thing was that because it was simply smaller, AND with the highest point being so much closer to the ground, it simply acted much less like a sail. Also helping with that: with all sides and ends staked right down on the ground, no wind at all getting on the inside and trying to lift it. This is a pretty regular occurrence when I use tarps with hammocks, when usually the tarps edges are a good bit above the ground(and as they were in the OP video).

    I suspect that my old 4 season tent pitched in this same(OP) spot would have had no trouble with those winds, based on my previous experience in it. And after this thread, my lack of confidence in my tarps in the worst possible conditions is confirmed. But of course I am not likely going back to tents, so what do I take from this? It is very important for me to seek out sheltered spots. Having a bunch of trees, brush, a hillside/cliff or big boulders between me and full force of the wind would help a lot. Or a snow wall if enough snow is available to build one. So, if any natural shelter is available, I need to use it.

    Of course, nothing new about this recommendation. It has always been recommended here at HF, especially when using smaller or asym tarps. Let nature help your tarp block the wind and rain. And in the first book I read on hammock camping, by Ed Speer, he touts that as a huge advantage of the hammock with tarp sometimes even over a 4 season tent: since we don't have to have flat ground, it is 100 times easier for us to find a sheltered spot. Even on a steep hill or otherwise unusable spot, as long as there are two usable trees, we can hunker down there, out of the wind. Then we don't need a 4 season tent that can stand up to 60+ MPH winds, we just need whatever the natural barrier is to stand up to those winds, as they do over and over.

    Lastly, again old Ed Speer always preached this: If we can't get out of the wind, or if for any other reason we can't get warm or into a shelter, just go to ground. I (along with 19 others) spent 30 straight days, often above timberline, sharing 1 tarp with 2 other guys. But these tarps were often(in bad weather) pitched just high enough to sit under in the middle/RL. The sides were way out wide, and we could pile snow or debris or packs or even smooth rocks on those edges to, along with stakes, keep them close to the ground and keep the wind out. This wasn't winter, but we did get some big storms, sometimes above timberline.(we were never much below 10,000 FT). No one had an issue except the time during a big snow storm on June 27, when a limb broke off and punctured the tarp, dumping a big load of snow in my sleeping bud's face. So low pitched tarps can handle a lot more wind. Maybe even find a downed tree, and pitch that tarp next to or even over that tree, and put that pad down close to the tree with the tree between you and the wind. If the tarp is pretty low, plus the tree blocking most of even 100 mph winds, that tarp is probably going to be fine.

    Lastly, if there is plenty of snow and no sheltered spots to hang, just go to ground by gigging a snow trench. I've done it, and I've seen others do it. If not snowing or raining(probably not a good idea in heavy rain, at least trickier), I have just dug a trench deep enough for me to be well protected from the wind and slept snug under the stars. Or, put the tarp over the trench- with one end open for entry- and pile snow on the edges to hold it down and keep the wind out. Then lay that pad down and sleep as though there is no wind. And if the pad insulates well, it might even be pretty darn comfy on that snow, compared to rocky ground. But when all else fails while trying to escape the wind or get warm, just go to ground with a pad and tarp. It has always been an added challenge to accomplish these things while hanging several feet in the air. We do it all the time, but it is trickier, particularly when dealing with high winds and our sails, er, I mean tarps.

  10. #30
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    In my opinion it's not the wind on the tarp doing the damage
    I believe it's the trees swaying that tears apart my ridgeline split rings
    I could be completely wrong
    And now I am rethinking my separate ridgeline
    I do need to order more extra split rings tho

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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